July 30, 2007

Great Moments in History

Monday, July 30, 2007, 12:39:54 am, East Haven Standard Time:

Roneldo survives Dungeons of the Unforgiven actually playing the game properly.

Sounds like a plan. Several plans.

Roneldo is feared and respected.

281 Responses
  1. 1
    4:18 pm, July 30, 2007

    Yamamanama sez:

    The monster doesn’t look as horrid as the other things in the game. I guess it was a reward for getting that far. The dungeon itself and interface more than makes up for it.


  2. 2
    1:00 pm, July 31, 2007

    Eels Macinstrudel sez:

    It doesn’t actually look like that. The skull thing appears over all enemies when they are defeated. A proper, non-shadow ogeroth looks like this:

    Note how backwards it is and also that its right hand appears to be a tumorous lump due to the needlessly limited color palette and pixels eliminated by downscaling. There is a World of Warcraft player named “Ogeroth” who I must assume was inspired by Moraff.

    58 of the 60 “new” monsters the in the third through fifth episode are truly ugly, generally flat and mouse-drawn looking, and then suddenly in the last section they’re semi-decent again, though not any harder to destroy. Of course I still need to make my way back to the surface every time I want to advance a level, so

    these sorts remain common sight. It may help to select “subdued bright color switch” in the graphic options menu and press escape to stop the mouse from highlighting your main view all the time, but these creatures will look no better, and through it all persist the same giant garbage cans and poison druggies.

    I’d consider “Elf Surfer” a particularly odd employment of Jr. Tolkien themes, had this game not been produced in the early 1990s, amidst a smorgasbord of surfing and skating related merchandising and programming. The elf surfers all had one of their eyes stolen by the interior decorator. They seem not to notice, based on how they tilt their heads while aiming, which leads me to believe they always had lousy aim.

    As for the cat, it did not come back. Not the very next day, nor any other day. Verily, it just stayed away. I suspect it drowned.

  3. 3
    7:17 pm, July 31, 2007

    Yamamanama sez:

    Maybe a rainbow trash can ate it.

  4. 4
    9:01 pm, August 1, 2007

    Eels Macinstrudel sez:

    Yarks. A reasonable person might expect that my typically negative experiences with live-journals and such had taught me not to leave comments like that which I just did. Just for acknowledging any part of it I salute you.

  5. 5
    12:24 am, August 2, 2007

    Yamamanama sez:

    Hey, this game is morbidly (key word, there) fascinating.

  6. 6
    8:15 pm, August 2, 2007

    Eels Macinstrudel sez:

    Between the beginning and the end, it’s kind of dull.

  7. 7
    8:46 pm, November 21, 2007

    david sez:

    I’ll never understand the addiction of a 1993 dungeon-crawler like that. I take it back. yes I do, because I’m trying to beat the **** thing. Lovely, no?

    Currently level 24 with enough exp to jump to level 38 once I can get enough freakin’ rubles to afford the stock, crystals, and inn fee. Ridiculous. i’m currently hiding out in the obnoxious “Diseased Insect” section of Module II. Ya, I know, LONG way to go.

    Of course, like an idiot, spent a good few hours with yonder hex editor trying to give myself a break on the money side, but it seems good ‘ol Moraff The Great took steps to make sure that doesn’t happen. Modify one hex value just a little bit and the character file won’t load. Be damned if i can figure it out. Curse you, Moraff.

    So onward and upward. 190k rubles to go.

  8. 8
    10:43 pm, November 21, 2007

    Kesglarbix sez:

    I assume you’re playing on the “normal” difficulty level, but do forgive me if I am incorrect. If you want money, I suggest going as deep as you can without getting massacred and fight there, as money accrued is based entirely on depth. You’ll get just as much (or little) money in Module 1. Perhaps you know that. I don’t know what you know.

    I suspect after the first few levels of experience the game is much easier on the harder mode, as it requires you to gain more experience points to advance, and so your statistics will be higher (if you survive), thus better preparing you for the depths you’ll need to go to get enough money for more levels. The main drawback is superficial: you’ll be on level 20 fighting monsters at level 50 who are weaker than you. Oh and also there’s no challenge.

    Statistics are much more important than levels, which mainly affect spell and hit points.

    Moraff’s World, the previous game, is highly susceptible to save-file editing. You can type random nonsense in one for marvelous effects. The best you can do with Unforgiven is to delete the monster map while positioned near an appropriately colored puff-ball’s spawn point. Or to make a copy of the monster map right before you beat a shadow beast.

    I know too much about this stupid game.

  9. 9
    3:49 pm, November 30, 2007

    david sez:

    Well, I’m further along now than I was. Finally exploring the lower depth of Module III. Gotta watch out for those eyeballs. Got myself killed by one last night (no idea how).

    Current stats if I want to level up:
    91,350,000 culture stock
    16,312,500 crystals
    14,191,200 rent
    all values listed in rubles. Moraff was a sadistic man.

    This goddamned game is addictive. hate hate hate. He was nice enough to include Rings Of Regeneration, so how about a Ring Of Thought? hm? huh? MAYBE?

    Eh, maybe not. It’d make it to easy to stop around casting Autokill all the time.

    I will beat this game. I will.

  10. 10
    4:54 pm, November 30, 2007

    Kesglarbix sez:

    That can’t be right, if you’re at level 38. The level 46 character in use above needs a bit under 4,500,000 rubles to stay at an inn. Have you “help[ed the] child[ren]” at a temple? Inn expenses cost considerably less based on how many children you’ve “helped.” The effect seems to reach its apex at 1000 children. If you haven’t yet done so, putting all but 100000 rubles in a bank, restarting the game in cga or low-resolution vga mode and placing a weightful object on the 6 key for a few minutes ought to solve that.
    I don’t know if I’ve ever used autokill beyond just trying it out. Power weapon 3 (c34 ha ha ehhh) and an occasional resist level drain get most jobs done. I will have to try the game as fighter class sometime. I must. I have no choice.

  11. 11
    9:23 pm, December 3, 2007

    david sez:

    oops, i was higher than 38. dammit, now i’m all sleep-deprived.
    And to make matters even worse, I’ve had to start over. For shits and giggles I tried to head into Module V. “Oh, too bad so sad, you play on higher difficulty tank you come again”. I think you warned me about that.


    Getting started out on “I Can Handle Anything” is pure hell, especially as a Mage, but I’m coming along. got killed about 50 times but eventually managed to keep Mr. Pants alive to reach level 2 (though I did pull a few stat-stunts to give myself a fighting chance).

    Still in Module I but I’m hanging in there. I chose to “Design My Own” and gave my character a Luck score of 22. Allowed me to get better weapons much faster.

    My guy is a childman-mage. I’ve tried to explain some of the bad guys to friends. I always have to preface it with “Look man, I couldn’t make this up if I tried. Yes. That’s right. Zombies. With big syringes for arms. Yes, that’s a rainbow trash can. I didn’t design the damned thing.”

    I hate this game.

    And I can’t stop.

    Curse you, Moraff.

  12. 12
    9:28 pm, December 3, 2007

    david sez:

    btw, yeah, I figured out the trick about helping out the children, but I thought it’s effect maxed out at appx 50% discount when you’ve helped 100 children (which I have, this time around).

    And it, of course, doesn’t do much regarding staying at the inn.

    I know the max American dollars you can carry is the equivalent of $20,000,000 rubles. Already hit that once (grr).

  13. 13
    2:27 pm, December 6, 2007

    david sez:

    here we go again.
    Modules I-III completed. currently working on the first section of Module IV. Damn, these guys are starting to hit hard. I almost didn’t make it through the tail end of III. Vampires, Mr. Fangs, ugh.

    And I can’t find the stoopid “Resist Level Drain” or “Heal All Wounds” spells to save my life. There’s no way I’m going further into this dungeon without it. Though I did finally manage to find one (1) ring of regeneration. Gee, Steve, try not to spend it all in one place.

    i did figure out one nice thing. If you get a key, for say, Level 5 in Module 1, it will allow you to access trapdoors labelled “Level 5” in all modules. Big plus.

    Ya’ll aren’t kidding about some of the incredibly crappily-drawn baddies in this stupid game. The “Flesh-Eater”/”Foot-Stomper” from Module III was just retarded. Then again, what do I expect playing a game where I fight freakin’ zombies with syringes for arms and Giant Rainbow Garbage Cans.

    fark. i’ve got a LONG way to go.

  14. 14
    4:50 pm, December 7, 2007

    Elfibrax sez:

    Maybe it is 100, with the children. I know it was definitely a 1 followed by some amount of zeroes no greater than three.

    I don’t know where Moraff gets (ehhh, got) off saying mages are “very hard” to start. Wizards are surely more difficult. They can hardly hit anything with their limited armaments and magic zap only does 2 points of damage. I must assume winning as a monk is near impossible, if they refuse to carry regeneration rings. I rarely complete section ii, module 1 without finding one. Maybe it’s not luck which determines that after all. What benefit it does have quickly wears off and you’ll wish you’d gone with intelligence instead. Or at least you will be if you insist on comparing your spell points with whatever your previous character had, but it’s not worth worrying about.

    When I ordered that game(s) from the Moraff people back in 1996, a tiny, stamp-sized “face of death” was printed on the envelope (but it was not a stamp). I instantly recognized it despite not having ventured far enough in either dungeon game to see it. They always seemed, to me, so much more classy than the riff-raff they share a section with.

    On my last go-through, for much of section four I had the 70 key, but the only door I could find needed 65, and I couldn’t use it. Bah.

  15. 15
    12:02 pm, December 12, 2007

    david sez:

    Did it.


    STUPID ending, though it was already given away.

    Wow, a plus 101 enhancement to my long sword. Might have come in handy, oh, maybe earlier in the DUNGEON.

    I hate you Steve Moraff. I take your game. It’s good game…

    (for me to poop on).

  16. 16
    7:39 pm, December 20, 2007

    Elfibrax sez:

    You join an elite, utterly unsatisfied group.

  17. 17
    1:53 pm, July 18, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    “I Can Handle Anything” difficulty…ugh.

    I keep dying since I have too few hit points, and the Little Cure spells I possess (being a priest) don’t do much. Blarg.

    I figure if I can make it to level 3 or so I’ll be fine…but I haven’t been able to get that far yet.

    I know, I suck. ;>.

  18. 18
    2:57 am, July 19, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    Verily, of the two modes, the second is the more difficult. If you haven’t yet already, you should try doing as Moraff says and start your character with mostly strength points, in general disregard of other attributes.

  19. 19
    11:20 am, July 19, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Yea, I’ve tried all the other combinations and that seems to work the best.

    (Granted, I still keep dying. But I just suck at this game, so meh. I’ll get there)

  20. 20
    12:58 pm, July 19, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    It’s something like how Normal is too easy (and rather unrewarding at that, only 4 modules able to be visited…) and ICHA is too hard. ;._.

  21. 21
    1:38 pm, July 19, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    While obviously I don’t know how you do things, I would suggest not ever battling any foe over level 1 until you’re past level 0 and don’t fight the joke monsters at all. It’s not uncommon to get a slaying streak going and suddenly lose 20 hit points to a stupid gargalon just because it happened to be at level 3 on the wrong floor. Sometimes they’ll show up with 2 hit points just to trick you into thinking you’ll get away with it and you still can’t strike them. Also very important, using the enter key to pass a turn so the beasts come to you and don’t get extra attacks when you approach. It took me quite some while to figure that out.

  22. 22
    3:58 am, July 22, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    I’ve been trying it lately with the “monk” class and become reacquainted with that old magical feeling that the game is impossible. Ah, happiness.

  23. 23
    10:46 pm, July 24, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Oh god.

    I just ran into a level 32 gargalon. Yes, level 32. It had 364 HP.

    Luckily, by that time I had power weapon I and enough HP that it didn’t totally obliterate me.

    And after I killed it, I realized I should’ve taken a screenshot. ;_;

    Why must fate be this way?

    (It was, however, totally awesome. And might have something to do with the fact that I was screwing around in Module III just before I met the guy (I went back to Module I to do so, though…


  24. 24
    10:53 pm, July 24, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Ooh, now a level 32 Sustrontina.

    Man, I think my game just got either insanely difficult or insanely badass. Maybe both.


  25. 25
    10:56 pm, July 24, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    But yea, that thing you said earlier, Slengof, about taking a 20HP hit from a level 3 Gargalon on the wrong floor…I think I beat that. :P

    (And now I fell down a chute and can’t get back to the guy (girl? ;o_O) to kill it. Shame.)


  26. 26
    12:02 am, July 25, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:


    A video of my nightmare. And now I’ll stop posting four times in slightly quick succession.

    Yea, sorry about that. ;._.

  27. 27
    2:47 am, July 25, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    The game only refreshes the monster maps (dmon.map, emon.map, fmon.map, and so on) when you switch floors, but sometimes it doesn’t realize they’re wrong right away. Going down and up once usually fixes it, but sometimes they stay wrong until a normal in-module refresh takes place (I think it only remembers monsters for 3 floors at a time). It’s possible, as you’ve seen, to travel through an inter-module portal without triggering this, resulting in monster placements and levels from where you just came from. Also, if for some reason you decide to delete your character rather than die, starting a new game temporarily inherits whatever the last monster layout was and permanently gives you the deleted character’s exploration data (until you die, of course).
    It’s also possible to make copies of map files and transfer them between character slots. For amusement, to escape peril, refight key enemies, or whatever. If you delete a map, the game is “smart” enough to immediately generate a new one. It is possible to find out where the spawn points are this way. Moraff’s world (the previous game) came with a batch file which deleted the maps automatically, because sometimes shadow monsters would appear in almost inaccessible places and Mr. Moraff was unable, for whatever reason, to fix that. He also didn’t fix whatever it is that allows the “relocate” spell (or portal exits) to drop players in these places, stranding anyone without the spell points to cast it again. And if you don’t have spell points, chances are you’re weak enough to be killed by whatever you meet while digging your way out.

    Why yes, this has happened to me. One final note, you might want to use jpg or png instead of bmp on the internet.

  28. 28
    3:18 am, July 25, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    It does go both ways. The damage system continues to be baffling. Despite being on level 5 against level 46 with plus 25 body armor, plus 100 titanium armor and 142 dexterity, the ogeroth still did 131 points of hurt.

  29. 29
    11:09 am, July 25, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    “He also didn’t fix whatever it is that allows the “relocate” spell (or portal exits) to drop players in these places, stranding anyone without the spell points to cast it again”

    This happened to me once on a floor where I was too deep to either dig a tunnel or use the floor slosher. Pissed me off severely.

  30. 30
    11:13 am, July 25, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    ^Granted, that was when I had just downloaded the shareware version, was about 11 or 12, and thought my level 7 Giant Mage was the best character ever, even though it had hardly any useful spells to its name that I can remember.

    How naive I was…

  31. 31
    11:18 am, July 25, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    And yay, I’m not alone.

    “One final note, you might want to use jpg or png instead of bmp on the internet. ”

    This is just me being lazy. I can stop. Maybe. >_>

  32. 32
    4:10 am, July 26, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    The trap was particularly infuriating because I walked into the portal accidentally. If I’d been using the demo I’d have survived for another few minutes!

    I don’t know whether to be relieved or worried for the world in general that more than one person has had as long a fascination with Moraff dungeons as I have. I think I would have finally left this topic behind if not for the sinister, fairly recent idea that winning might be feasible without cheating.

    Eh, don’t change image formats for me. I can handle it. If you ever want to have stupendously popular web pages like this one, though…

  33. 33
    2:01 pm, July 26, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    “winning might be feasible without cheating.”

    No way. Not possible. :P

    I’ve found that it’s more not dying (and persistence) that’s the problem. Winning will perhaps come naturally once I get the hang of that. Or maybe they are one and the same.

    “I don’t know whether to be relieved or worried for the world in general that more than one person has had as long a fascination with Moraff dungeons as I have.”

    Same. I honestly thought nobody would reply to my original post…

  34. 34
    6:13 pm, July 27, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    I am curious as to what the 8th armor slot is used for… Is it simply a form of armor I haven’t yet found (I was surprised when I discovered the Great Sword for the first time. I went and played a fighter just so I could use it. :P), or is it just there to make the section look nice because Moraff figured that a large empty space would look aesthetically displeasing, and figured he’d taunt us once more?

  35. 35
    5:40 pm, July 28, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    I see no reason to assume that’s not just more laziness. There are references to “registering” which persist in the full version, the level 0 glitch garbage cans, the very first shadow monster warning naming the wrong foe, unchanged Moraff’s World text strings, all that sort of thing. The weapon and armor lists are probably formed by the same bit of code. Although I never noticed there weren’t enough items to fill the list because I’ve been trying to win as Monk (who get none) and also I generally drop one when it is not used.
    I definitely assumed an item was missing, though, because there didn’t seem to be a fighter-exclusive armor counterpart to Great Swords.
    Perhaps a space was reserved for “Robes” before they were declared “(useless).”

  36. 36
    5:48 pm, July 28, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    Re: surviving, I just realized with my most recent series of excursions (brought about by your comments), all the monsters get more powerful the first two times the player advances a level. At first the weakest can’t inflict more than 4 damage points, then they do 6, and then, inexplicably, 9. Meanwhile, these levels which have empowered the populace grant a player no inherent strength or defensive advantage, so the top floor essentially becomes twice as lethal. More than that, really, because one also suddenly can no longer afford to stay at The Inn, so even more powerful nemeses must be mingled with.

  37. 37
    11:13 pm, July 28, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Heh, once I was able to get into the lower sections of module I, money seemed to not be a problem.

    When I was finally able to get to the Elemental Section (II, I believe), the money drops went up drastically.

    By the time I hit section III, the enemies dropped around a million regularly. As I was only level 8 or so I was now richer than Bill Gates game-wise and so I went and bought LOTS of Culture Stock and Magic Crystals. ^.^

    I find it rather disappointing, however, that a level 10 character is able to completely waste a level 59 Giant Garbage Can. (I went to Module V and activated Power Weapon III just for the heck of it because at the rate I was going, getting experience seemed to be a much bigger problem than money (of which I still possess, 249888 rubles, 770 culture stock, and 593 magic crystals.)

    It’s gotten to the point where getting a cure for poison at the temple is cheaper than casting resist poison in the first place, although I expect that to change when I tackle Section VIII or whichever has all the poison/disease monsters. Then I’ll cast it so as to keep the annoyance level down.

    This ring of regeneration I recently acquired only makes it easier.

    I’ve got a feeling things are about to get really boring. Though it was fun destroying the “All-Powerful-Commander-Of-Module-One” in about 3 hits via Power Weapon 3.

  38. 38
    11:20 pm, July 28, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    But yea, those Power Weapon spells are definitely unbalanced…Almost makes me want to play a fighter just to make the game more of a challenge. Almost.

  39. 39
    3:44 pm, July 29, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    Indeed, once you have found comfort in section 3, nothing in the remainder of the game should challenge you too much. Maybe section 8 with the fire/ice monsters, but I don’t remember having trouble with anything else when I made the trip which led to my initial posting (a year ago tomorrow!).

    If you think power weapons make the game too easy, I invite you to play as a sage, and only get 2 spell points per level. You can’t cast power weapon 3 until level 5 and even then once it expires you’ll probably be massacred. The monk also suffers this with the added penalty of not being allowed to carry regeneration rings, or even just find the stat-increase books. If I ever finish that I’ll have to try the fighter, whose biggest problem I assume would eventually be the inability to resist level draining unless a suitable spell-paper is first found.

    re: sections 7 and uh 19?: You might not want to resist poison at all, not worry about getting poisoned, and when you eventually do, cure it yourself right before it steals any strength.

  40. 40
    9:27 pm, July 29, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Yea, I got my current character killed off, and am starting over as a Monk now.

  41. 41
    9:34 pm, July 29, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    Intentionally? I didn’t mean for you to do that! Monks are miserable. Although it may in fact turn out to be the case that you’re much better at this game than I am.

  42. 42
    10:45 pm, July 29, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    I doubt it. And no, not intentionally. I got careless when fighting one of those stupid giant trash cans. I didn’t realize it was taking off around 30 HP a turn instead of the usual 1 or 2 HP every ten turns or so until it was too late.

    Oh well. I was going to start over anyway, since it was getting really easy.

    And yea, fighters would have to avoid level drainers at all costs…

  43. 43
    10:47 pm, July 29, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    And Monks are indeed miserable. Yet, it’s quite fun just seeing all the spells there for me to cast at whim…if only I had the spell points.

    I guess Mr. Monk would be literally weightless once he cast a permanent feather spell, seeing as he isn’t allowed to carry anything.

  44. 44
    3:32 pm, July 31, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    That would be sort of sad. He could never leave the dungeon for fear of being helplessly blown around for the remainder of his existence.
    I couldn’t get the game manageable until around level 8, and even then the tediousness was unmatched. As few as 3 water elementals would drain pretty much all my spell points if I insisted on slaying them, and I always did, requiring a retreat upwards to hunt for thought-balls among the gargonians. I may have to do what you did for experience points, and fiddle about in module 3, regardless of dollars. Whereas a wizard could probably clear section 4 right now.

  45. 45
    11:06 pm, August 1, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    HEh, it makes me think of Adrian Monk wandering around in there…he’d be horrified at the untidyness of it all, I suspect.

  46. 46
    2:59 am, August 3, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    I hope he isn’t claustrophobic, too.

  47. 47
    11:33 am, August 3, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    I don’t think he is, but I’ve only really seen the show twice so far.

  48. 48
    2:04 am, August 4, 2008

    Slengof sez:

    I sort of saw it once, a few years back, during the time when I shared a computer, and somebody watched a Monk episode behind me. For some reason Mr. Monk locks himself in a coffin and gets himself buried to find out who did some murders or other dirty deed(s) and I thought he must have either been fighting his small-space fear or did not have that fear at all. So we’re back where we started on that topic.

  49. 49
    6:59 pm, August 12, 2008

    Anonymous sez:

    I saw that episode. He got buried alive, but that was because someone was trying to kill him.

    He isn’t claustrophobic…to my knowledge.

    But he’s got about every phobia known to man and probably at least six that aren’t. >_>

  50. 50
    10:00 pm, August 12, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Bah. ^That was me.

  51. 51
    9:18 pm, August 13, 2008

    Coinmaster sez:

    LOL I hacked DoU!!!!! 6 hours of running through memory bytes paid off! Try cheat engine to hack it
    Moraff the amazing may block hex edits, but he couldn’t stop direct memory edit in mid-game!

  52. 52
    2:32 am, August 14, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    Random Kid: I assumed it was you when you responded. I knew it was you when you responded twice. Tee! “Anonymous” isn’t all that less specific than “ARandomKid,” though, is it?

    Coinmaster: I hope that wasn’t six hours all at once.

  53. 53
    11:22 am, August 16, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Eh, I guess not. And yea, 6 hours at once couldn’t possibly be good for your health, Coinmaster…

    On Monk, I recently watched an episode where he went on a submarine…turns out he is, in fact, claustrophobic.

    Along with every other form of -phobic you can possibly imagine. Living with that guy must be torture.

  54. 54
    1:54 am, August 19, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    But I was teasing. Do feel free to drop as many comments as you want on as many not-yet-robot-locked entries as you want.

    At least Monk has fears people have heard of and will put up with, to some extent. I can’t be around styro-foam packing materials or certain backwards alphanumeric figures and that sort of thing is just funny to people.

  55. 55
    10:21 am, August 20, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    “fears people have heard of and will put up with”

    Some quotes:

    “That 3 is crooked…and the 1 is upside down. The scoreboard is like some abstract puzzle of insanity…no wonder attendance is low…”

    “The lines…on the floor from the vacuum…they aren’t straight…they’re more diagonal. It’s really not a problem, I’ll fix it…no, not a problem.”

    “Ocean in my shoes…ocean in my shoes. ;_;”

  56. 56
    12:04 pm, August 22, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    Ah, that’s better, although those look more like aversions than fears (with just the text and no reactions, anyhow). If the styrofoam had touched me I’d have had to die. It may also have been the case that my mother felt a public duty to be non-understanding on issues of that nature in an attempt to keep me from becoming a professional nuisance. We didn’t realize back then what a splendid tv show it could make.

  57. 57
    2:47 am, September 25, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    I hope this isn’t against posting policies (I have no idea what they are) but here’s the full version of the game if anyone who doesn’t already have it wants to try modules 2-5 but doesn’t want to pay money for such an old game that should be freeware anyways. Also, for those who care, my “I Can Handle Anything Difficulty” game-beating character is on there, just in case you want to explore the game but aren’t too good at it. With a few hundred trillion experience, he’s pretty diesel.

  58. 58
    4:28 am, September 25, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    I’ve never been appealing enough to attract people who would need policies. No, my only rule is “don’t be an ad robot” and that is ignored more often than it is obeyed.
    Eh, but in order to take pictures of the ending I needed to have been playing the full version. And to have discussed with those other people the hazards of module III they must also have been using full versions.

    It is interesting to see that you only have 4 rings of regeneration, whereas by that point I typically have over 20. As well as a respectable collection of potions, grenades and teleport stones. Somehow Moraff has seen to it that you only found stones of seeing most of the time. Now I wonder if helping children affects this, also, because I was mistaken, at the time, into thinking that 1000 was the number where it stopped mattering, rather than 100. You do have a lot more hit points than I’ve ever had. My mage only had a bit over 3000 at level 46.
    You have a much more restrained approach to buying magic crystals than I. Every level I used to spend all my money on crystals first and invest the refund in culture stock, even past the point where hoarding crystals should have been necessary, ending up with nearly 100000 by the time the Ogeroth was slain. My level 39 wizard had even more than that, despite, one assumes, consuming a lot more as well. All this means nothing, but it’s too late. I’ve already typed it. Fortunately, I don’t expect anyone to see it.

  59. 59
    5:12 am, September 25, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    yea I didn’t have much of a need for crystals since I used very few spells. As for the rings, I could never find the damn things. Every time it said “You Find…” it always gave me a stone of seeing. Although, I did collect and use quite a few Nuclear Hand Grenades. As for the potions, I had dozens but I used most of them. The ones left over were probably collected whilst en route back to module 1. I posted the full version because I have wanted the full version of this game ever since I was 6 and was never able to explore outside of module 1 until about a week ago. This was just my gift for anyone stuck in a situation similar to my own.

  60. 60
    1:50 am, September 27, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    You used very few spells? I’ve always found that I can’t do much without them. Powering weapons, passing walls, resisting level drain, constantly. Although I suppose once you’re over 1000 points it becomes unlikely you’ll ever spend them all. Maybe I’m just compulsive. Maybe I just never think to use the potions and grenades.

    I wonder, if you only found the maximum version recently… for a while I had an “unforgiv.arj” hosted on some other bit of web space and I noticed a couple of unscrupulous sites linking directly to it, and by then the place where I first found it online had removed it. It fascinates me to think it possible that I just downloaded what I myself had once uploaded.

  61. 61
    2:26 am, September 28, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    Probably. The one I downloaded was a .ARJ file. The reason I didn’t need many spells was because with over 200 strength, most enemies died in one hit anyways. Plus with so many stones of seeing, I only needed wall pass when I was absolutely stuck. I did use power weapon 3 every so often, mainly for bosses though. And for some reason I hardly ever found the need for Resist Drain. Sure, against certain bosses I did use it, but with my stats all so high, I never missed, I could attack as many as six times before an enemy had a chance to strike back, and most enemies couldn’t survive even a single hit from me. All in all, I really only recovered about 100 or so spell points whenever I decided to stay at an inn, which usually happened after every 1 or 2 boss fights. I may start a new game and choose a fighter, just to see if I can make it through the game. I’ll upload the character if I succeed.

  62. 62
    2:41 am, October 2, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    I can only conclude that you are far better at the game than I’ll ever be. I can only ever play it on a constant defensive. So many times I’ve started to get comfortable only to be drained in some way walking through a “door.” Really? 7 enter presses wasn’t enough? I’ll never understand why they wait around dopily when they’re getting hit but if you merely walk next to one it can make three attacks (I’m recalling a particularly stupid death by one of section 8’s giant ice-breath dragon heads). Ah well. You probably could win as a fighter. I always assumed it wasn’t possible and so never tried. Although after my experiences with my stack of dead monks I no longer fear the impossible.

  63. 63
    2:48 pm, October 2, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    I’ve played module 1 through at least once a month since I was like 6, so I hope I’ve gotten pretty good by now. I try to get to about level 10 or so, then fight sustrontimas (I know that’s spelled wrong) and get as many potions as possible. Once my dexterity and luck are high enough, level drainers are no longer an issue. I’m still training my fighter in section 1 of module 1. My dexterity and luck are both over 50 so I may challenge the Shadow Gargalon soon. It’s really hard training the fighter because I have to be much more careful than normal so it’ll take some time. It’s definitely fun though.

  64. 64
    3:19 pm, October 2, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    In all honesty, there are much better computer games to be playing once a month.

    Sustrontimas don’t actually drain levels so you could probably fight them before level 10.
    Maybe I’ve just been using wimpy classes for too long. I’ve found that I can’t afford to go past level 4 without dipping into section 2, because of the way the money drops and inn trinket-pricing are handled. Sometimes I’ll find that I have enough experience to go up several times but lack both the money and necessary hit points to slay something that would give the money to me. By level 10 I have to be taking down watery graveyards and such, and with lesser statistics than you report having. Approximately how long does it take to gather 50 luck and dexterity just in section 1?

  65. 65
    2:11 am, October 4, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    It only takes me a couple hours to gather enough potions and fight enough puff balls to get my stats that high. I rely mostly on cups of health to keep me alive. This just happens to be one of my favorite games. I like using the mage best but I suppose I should get more acquainted with the priestly spells. I haven’t had much time to work on my fighter lately but I’ll eventually get around to it.

  66. 66
    6:09 pm, October 6, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    The priest and worshiper spells are mostly the same as those for the mage and wizard, though the point cost differs and there’s no “magic zap” at all. Unless you’re looking for a greater degree of difficulty there’s no reason to ever not be a mage. And if you rarely use magic it won’t make a difference.
    Also, do please forgive my momentary intolerance. I think I may be slightly allergic to Moraff (and, more tragically, chocolate).

  67. 67
    2:43 pm, October 7, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    Lol, I guess when all the bosses are beaten, the only thing left to go for is a higher degree of difficulty.

  68. 68
    9:47 pm, October 17, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Woo, haven’t been here in forever.

    I highly doubt Moraff is going to care about people downloading the full version. It really isn’t worth paying for. >.>

    I’ve been inspired to start over yet again and actually beat the thing this time. (Though, since I was only level 2 on my current file, it’s not saying much)

  69. 69
    12:38 am, October 18, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    Dude, training a fighter is hard work. I have to be so careful it’s ridiculous. Man, I do love the challenge though.

  70. 70
    2:17 pm, October 19, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    specific random kid:
    What is “here?” It’s just some poorly coded comment form with a big empty space on the right. It was not designed for real discussions. You needn’t feel obligated to acknowledge it.

    twelfth kefka:
    It’s about time that aspect of the game caught up with the others in terms of ridiculousness.

  71. 71
    10:42 pm, October 19, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    I just know that if said comment form were a person, it might be longing to be acknowledged. On the off-chance that this poorly coded system is sentient and has feelings, I feel obligated to acknowledge its existance, no matter how meager.

    I’m probably thinking too hard about this.

    I’ve also found that, past around level 5 or so, the game starts to become repetitive. Around level 10, the challenge is nearly gone as long as I’m careful enough.

  72. 72
    8:20 pm, October 20, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    And knowing that surely you can see why I’m surprised there are 70 comments here. I didn’t think there was this much to say! And yet…

  73. 73
    7:58 am, October 21, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    It’s just one of those games…

    you’d think one would be bored after the first 5 minutes…but apparently, this is not the case.

    It can’t even be explained away by my near-insane personality.

  74. 74
    11:15 pm, October 26, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    It worries me to think that Moraff may be the most sane one of us all.

  75. 75
    1:05 pm, October 27, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Oh wow.

    That is rather worrying.

  76. 76
    12:53 pm, October 29, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    Yeah after my fighter died 16 times you’d think I’d have given up by now. Nope! Because now I have a Ring of Regeneration!

    Man…the more I think about it the more I realize….this is a really crappy game.

  77. 77
    5:59 pm, October 29, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Yes, yes it is.

    And I’m now embarking on the fighter quest along with you, kefka.

    If only because playing as a preist is becoming REALLY boring. ;x_x

  78. 78
    6:02 pm, October 29, 2008

    Eesklipisk sez:

    One of the biggest mistakes one can make in regards to a Moraff topic is thinking about it.

  79. 79
    6:57 pm, October 29, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    ARandomKid, what shall you name this heroic fighter of yours?

  80. 80
    8:33 pm, October 30, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    Dunno. Probably Alexei, just because I like the sound.

    It’s not like you ever see the name anyway. >_>

  81. 81
    1:38 pm, October 31, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    My fighter didn’t die, but I’m stuck in a room with no way out and no floor slosher. Damn it.

  82. 82
    3:07 pm, October 31, 2008

    Beanbiebklar sez:

    In the file “uh.bin” is the following text string



    I have wondered if that actually appeared in the game at any point, but suspected it did not. It would probably be difficult to program the game to know when that situation has arisen, even when someone is not Moraff.

  83. 83
    5:08 pm, October 31, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    My fighter didn’t die, but I’m stuck in a room with no way out and no floor slosher. Damn it.”

    This is the only real problem with being a fighter (pretty much everything else isn’t so much a problem as a hindrance that can be circumvented) – getting stuck on a level too deep for the floor slosher to work (and by definition too deep to dig a hole)

  84. 84
    2:17 am, November 1, 2008

    kefka12 sez:

    Yeah it sucks so bad because he was just getting to the point where he could basically fly through the rest of the game.

  85. 85
    11:12 pm, December 13, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    A new challenger appears!

    … Seriously I’ve been playing this game off and on for years. I first got the shareware of it off a BBS back in 93. In any case, I’ve been playing the last day or so and am a level 7 priest, but I think I’m going to start over again because I only have 11 dex, and it’s painful to play. I’m getting trashed by everything lol.

  86. 86
    7:55 pm, December 14, 2008

    Beanbiebklar sez:

    Paper cuts, migraines, kidney stones, Moraff… some things in life will always be painful.

  87. 87
    12:33 am, December 16, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Well I started over and rather rapidly caught up to where I was and exceeded it.

  88. 88
    1:51 pm, December 16, 2008

    Porticulo sez:

    Worry not, citizen. There is still plenty of time to fail.

  89. 89
    3:29 am, December 18, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Oh I’m very aware of that heh. I just finished module 1 though, so I’m almost caught up to the furthest I’ve ever been into the game. I’ve got 4 rings of regeneration now too, which should improve my chances at least somewhat. I’m playing a priest so it’s not too hard because of all the spells I get.

  90. 90
    5:49 am, December 22, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Well I cheated like crazy and beat it already lol. Strangely enough I’ve had a helluva time getting cheat engine to work with the game, though once I tried out dosbox (which makes the game run slower than it used to on my old 486) I was able to get it working in no time. In fact, I’ve made a trainer for the game now (but it will only work with dos box not just the command prompt). Not really sure if I should upload it somewhere and if so to where lol.

  91. 91
    6:08 pm, December 22, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Well I got it running a helluvalot better on dos box. Still doesn’t run at the speed it does natively, but setting the cpu cycles to 35,000-40,000 instead of 3,000 like the default setting sure helps lol.

  92. 92
    2:25 pm, December 23, 2008

    Porticulo sez:

    I’ve never had a problem running the game, although I’ve never used Windows Vista.

    I don’t even know what cheat engine is. I know “coinmaster” mentioned it earlier but these days I don’t play enough “normal” computer games which lack cheat codes that I wish had cheat codes for me to want something like that.
    As I said before under whatever name I was using then, I just fiddle with the files the game writes to and that makes it easy enough.

  93. 93
    2:46 am, December 24, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    This is under xp. I haven’t had any problems running it natively under xp, but it does seem to not let me get at the actual memory addresses when I do use it.

    Dos box is a dos emulator that doesn’t prevent you from accessing the memory of the game. It ran pretty poorly to start with, but I found out that was because it was throttling the cpu down way too low lol.

    In any case, cheat engine is a program that lets you scan for values in memory and then make changes to it. Using cheat engine I was able to build a stand alone trainer for the game that lets you set your stats to anything you want, your money to anything you want, your experience to anything you want, your max and current hp to whatever you want, and your max and current sp to whatever you want (great for those permanent spells). I didn’t try out dos box until after I beat the game so I didn’t have any of that functionality while I was playing, but manipulating files made the game easy enough anyway heh.

    I wish I had used dos box to play while I was playing though, because you can run it in windowed mode, which would have been great while writing the FAQ I wrote (it’s on gamefaqs now). Having to type out all those in game descriptions without a window mode was almost as painful as trying to start a new character in this game lol.

  94. 94
    11:46 pm, December 25, 2008

    ARandomKid sez:

    But a trainer would allow you to bypass the 4,000,000 hours required to pointlessly kill things for money! Blasphemy! >_>

    (A slight exaggeration? I think not. :P)

    And yes, DOSBox does wonders for working old games. I was surprised at the slowness at first, and then I read the instructions and figured out how to up the cycle rate.

  95. 95
    12:23 am, December 26, 2008

    Porticulo sez:

    Oh yes, I am familiar with value searches and that sort of thing. I used to do that a lot in ZSNES. I can see where such a tool would be helpful if you were trying to write some guide to the dungeon. I started on one a few years ago –not like that joke page linked somewhere on the right side of this site, but something meant to be helpful– but I couldn’t stop adding remarks insulting the game or expounding philosophically on Moraff’s sources of inspiration and I questioned the worth it would have to somebody who needed to BEAT this game badly enough to be looking up how to do that. And yet I suppose I couldn’t do worse than that old guide that was on EVERY website that just said, in effect, to find light colored puff-balls and drink potions.

  96. 96
    12:22 am, December 27, 2008

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Well, now there’s a guide that offers a little more guidance than that on gamefaqs thanks to me lol. I’d been through module 1 before, but that was it. By the time I’d cheated enough to get through module 1 easily (this was before the trainer I made) the rest of the game was easy too lol.

  97. 97
    5:09 pm, January 5, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Uploaded my last version of the FAQ to gamefaqs. I’m too lazy to type up all the spell descriptions.

  98. 98
    6:30 pm, January 5, 2009

    Porticulo sez:

    I see that you say to make a copy of dmon.map if you want to refight a monster. That is only true if your character is in space 0. It goes up to mmon.map, for character 9. I suppose I should have looked sooner, ehhh.

    You don’t mention the .dun files at all but those aren’t terribly important anyway since it’s rarely useful to see parts of the map you aren’t in unless you have a compulsive need to fill it up, and don’t want to feel compelled to run all the way through every dead end spiral you know is a dead end (like me). If you’re likely to die soon and need to find the best route of escape and additionally want to cheat, there are more helpful ways than having the layout revealed in advance. I am just saying this so I know I said it, I suppose.

    Also, to preserve a character, a player need only copy its own file, which will be its number preceded by a 2 with no extension; the one who uses dmon.map is “20,” for example. Neither of these are important. It’s nice enough to see it acknowledged that tricking the game is so simple.

    Yes, and I’m glad that you point out the difficulty of monk class; I avoided it for years afraid of not having itemse only to find it is deprived of basic survival skills when I at last decided it would be nice to see try the game without the astounding drop in difficulty the regeneration rings bring about.

    Both the facks emphasize the need to resist poison and disease in section 7, but I still think it’s cheaper to just cure them when they’re about to steal your points. Especially so since it may be a while before one hits you. If only the level draining worked the same way, ehhhh.

    The biggest difference I notice between the races is the height you view the dungeon scenes and monsters from, although they all mysteriously see a wall the same improbable way when beside one. I always think it’s funny being a giant and seeing the foes suddenly dip down when you get near them. Especially when they have neighbors who continue standing normally.

    I remember back when moraff.com had a forum, the other person there claimed to always play as a fighter and I couldn’t understand why. That isn’t relevant but I just remembered it.

  99. 99
    12:07 am, January 7, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Thanks for the pointers, I will update the FAQ.

  100. 100
    12:26 am, January 7, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    It may take a few days for gamefaqs to take the upload, but you’ve been credited in the FAQ by me =D

  101. 101
    2:46 am, January 7, 2009

    Zuidfwewm sez:

    Aw, gee. I hope I haven’t caused you too much trouble. I should credit you for having the one hundredth post on this absurdly long comment thread, but nobody deserves that.

  102. 102
    5:04 pm, January 7, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:


  103. 103
    2:14 am, January 22, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    I started to write a FAQ for moraff’s world, but then realized that there were no sections, so all the enemies were the same really. On top of that, I think I only had the shareware version or something since I couldn’t find any bosses after level 16 I think it was. I thought I had the full version but oh well. I found the cheat engine addresses for v6.1 of it for use with dosbox if anyone wants those.

  104. 104
    1:44 pm, January 24, 2009

    Zuidfwewm sez:

    In the “full” version the red dragons are much further apart than the shadow ones were. It’s a rather clumsy transition, but that’s the way Moraff does it. If you’re allowed to descend lower than sixteen you have the full game, I know that. Also, if you’re finding apes at all. As you go deeper eventually you see Zeuses and Faces of Death, like in modules 3 and 4 of the other game, but indeed it’s much the same the whole way. It may not be obvious that they’re any more powerful than the other monsters. Level drainers never get any more common (I don’t believe the Face of Death had yet learned to drain levels, but I’d rather not test that).

    I don’t remember if there’s a pattern to the dragon positions. It is unlikely I went all the way to the end more than once, since “world” and “unforgiven” are essentially the same game and I liked the other one better, despite the absense of the “raise dead” contract. “Exploring the wilderness” only takes you to another dungeon like the first. For all I know it’s the same one but you can’t tell because the game deletes your map. You don’t even ever meet that “cat head with legs” monster that shows up in some of the other early Moraff titles.

    Although now that I think of it, I don’t remember if I ever found the full edition of Moraff’s World online, and that may be why I never tried it again. When I bought the one Unforgiven game in 1996ish I got every game, including “Moraff’s Revenge” which I’d never heard of, but when I needed more sinister means to re-get it years later, I could only find some of its companions. I think I found “Superblast,” the arkanoid like game, but no sign of the weird customizable tetris game “Moretris” or the zany DOS version of Morejong. I especially miss “vga art,” the non-game that was all randomly generated color cycling fields. I’d love to get some screen-shots of that.

  105. 105
    3:07 pm, January 25, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    I was noticing that the boss monsters were every 4 levels in world, and I was able to go down below the 16th level, but it seems like I didn’t see on any maps the go north, etc. even though I checked it on every level through like level 30, so I’m not really sure what to think of that.

    I agree though, I like DotU much more than world for sure.

  106. 106
    3:31 pm, January 25, 2009

    Zuidfwewm sez:

    The “world” is 160 floors deep, if I recall, so if you haven’t found the first red beast by 30 it’s probably on 40, likely meaning the next is at 80, followed by 120 and finally 160. Again, there’s no transition at all and it almost seems insulting that the ultra special edition you’re meant to pay Greater American Dollars for only has as much depth as the free version, just more drawn out and monotonous. Perhaps they really are worthless.

  107. 107
    8:39 pm, January 27, 2009

    Fleeplezeep sez:

    Although wikehhpedia now suggests the dungeon is even deeper than that. Perhaps I should be glad my memory is less than perfect. People might think I am obsessed, and that’s supposed to be my secret.

  108. 108
    12:07 pm, January 29, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    lol, maybe I will get to work on my FAQ again for world then.

  109. 109
    1:02 am, January 30, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Well… I went down 120 or so levels, expanding the map on every level, and didn’t see it telling me a direction to go on any levels after 16 (the last boss I fought). I fought a devil or something at some point which was quite the situation also.

    Incidentally, if you’ve hacked your constitution way up, and then get level drained, it’s possible to end up with negative maximum possible HP (even if you don’t get drained down to level 1).

    I think I must have a funky shareware version or something.

  110. 110
    1:22 pm, February 3, 2009

    Fleeplezeep sez:

    If your constitution increases at all there’s a possibility of that happening, you just need to lose more levels.
    On one occasion it somehow happened that I went up and was drained down the same level three times, and I became aware that the reduced hit point total was even lower than it had previously been. The statistic bonuses are more generous in dotu so it is not surprising I eventually noticed. And so I decided to back up my data and see if I could get a negative hit point total with repeated drainings. The result is a rather unspectacular normal death.

    I did briefly play an incredibly early version of Moraff’s World which predated the “3d imaging on the walls!” implementation, when the only options were the silly vector textures and just black walls. I don’t suppose you’re using that one? I do find it curious that there is more variety in the vector graphics than the normal set. I guess Moraff eventually decided one brick wall and one door was good enough for 200 floors.

  111. 111
    1:38 pm, February 3, 2009

    Fleeplezeep sez:

    So it appears I do have a saved game from the modern era at the end there. Unfortunately, judging by the odd apportioning of the attribute points and the utterly absurd experience level I would suggest there was some random byte entry cheating involved. Maybe I will have to try to play this game properly, now. Oh, the thought fills me with joy!

  112. 112
    12:36 am, February 7, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    No I don’t have the vector only version heh, but I think I may have played that at some point over the years. When I start it up it says I have version 6.1 and it doesn’t seem to give me any nagware as to needing to buy the game, and I can go down past the 16th floor, but no more boss monsters appear. It’s very strange. Maybe I should start with a fresh install and fresh character and see if maybe it got corrupted or something.

    That is certainly an interesting set of stats, health, and level you’ve got there lmao.

    So I just checked me email and someone requested my DotU trainer. I had to rename it to send it through gmail, since gmail doesn’t like exe files, but hopefully it works for them heh. If I ever get world working right and finish an FAQ for it I’ll probably release a trainer for it, but I do have some cheat engine tables built for the version I do have.

  113. 113
    5:41 pm, March 31, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    So… does anyone have any suggestions on other similarly forgotten by the world (maybe that’s why they named the game the way they did lol) games that I should play and possibly write an FAQ for? I’m not really feeling the other 2 dungeon crawlers by moraff, so I need something else to mess with heh.

  114. 114
    3:07 pm, April 1, 2009

    Fleeplezeep sez:

    If there is a forgotten computer game in need of assistance I would not know, as I have forgotten it.

  115. 115
    4:58 pm, April 5, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    LMAO, well put.

  116. 116
    5:00 pm, April 5, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    I used to get all kinds of old dos games off BBS’s back in the day. I wouldn’t mind messing with some of those again, and all those old shareware games from the windows 3.1/95 era. You just don’t see that kind of stuff anymore with the advent of games in flash.

  117. 117
    1:11 pm, April 13, 2009

    Lemphlyn sez:

    I miss the anticipation and mystery of all those exciting descriptions, but inerrant disappointment of the programs themselves is a thing I’m glad is long in the past. My past, rather; I know better than to mess with flash-programmed games. How any computer software between 1986 and the rise of gimmicky 3D made a profit with Nintendo and Sega consoles around I have no idea. The most popular, most visible games by Apogee and such were at their cores weak ripoffs of Japanese games.

  118. 118
    9:07 pm, April 24, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    That doesn’t stop me from being nostalgic about them though lol. Much like I am about this particular game heh.

  119. 119
    6:57 am, April 28, 2009

    Snav sez:

    Rabbit, please send me a copy of that trainer. I’ve fiddled with cheat engine so many times, only to get nothing out of it.

    my email is [email protected]

    Thanks in advance!

  120. 120
    7:05 pm, April 28, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Sent, enjoy. If you don’t see it in your email post again and I’ll figure another way to get it to you. As I said in the email, it requires dos box v 0.72. I’ve tested it on a couple of computers, but only 32 bit computers and only in xp, so your mileage may vary.

  121. 121
    3:42 pm, May 4, 2009

    Anonymous sez:

    Someone sent me a link to a forum that has instructions for getting this running in SVGA mode on a modern computer. I’m going to be testing it tonight, and assuming I get it working, I’ll add it to the FAQ (at which point Gamefaqs will take a day or two to get it on their site). It’s been pretty sad that I could play this game with better graphics on my 486 15 years ago than I could on my modern computer lol.

  122. 122
    4:17 pm, May 11, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Above poster was me lol.

  123. 123
    10:54 am, May 12, 2009

    Lemphlyn sez:

    I assumed as much. Can the game actually be run in its intended mode? Is the refresh rate further reduced, to the point that it is detrimental to the great Moraff experience? Are the graphics truly “better?”

  124. 124
    4:48 pm, May 18, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    I’d say it’s ‘better’. But better can be subjective. I mean, getting kicked in the shin is better than getting kicked in the beanbag, but that doesn’t mean it’s wonderful.

  125. 125
    3:24 pm, June 2, 2009

    Fox sez:

    Damn, why is it that the experience gaining ability for the Sage in Moraff’s World by exploration doesn’t work? And is there a “best race” for each and every class or just in general?

  126. 126
    8:13 pm, June 2, 2009

    Finkeldey Fabrax sez:

    I don’t think the game is designed particularly well.
    The race only affects the height you view the dungeon from. The age and weight of your character will also be different, but I have yet to see these matter. You can get pretty much any configuration of start statistics from any race. Some classes are simply easier to win with than others. As it goes in most video games with multiple “job” options, it just comes across as lazier here because you don’t get any unique abilities for choosing one that is disadvantaged.

  127. 127
    9:03 pm, June 2, 2009

    Fox sez:

    Ughh. Just hurts me to see the Sage is broken, because the sound of playing one would seem rather interesting.

    I’m planing on starting up another character on Moraff’s World. Only made it through up to the bottom with an Orge Mage, but could never defeat extremely powerful level drainers and the Red Dragon King. I think the Monk is a very interesting class,though I don’t know how better their fists get later on. Getting all the spells in the game and all sounds like a nice thing to have. Perhaps if we over blow wiz. and int. we can get a large amount of spell pts from level ups.

    also heard from a guy in a faq that if you take each lvl up one at a time, you get a better hp and sp increase. Personally, I have no clue.

  128. 128
    9:47 pm, June 2, 2009

    Fox sez:

    Just tested the idea of taking each level one at a time. No difference in the increase with spell points playing an Elf Monk. Though, I wasn’t paying attention to my hp increase ^_^;

    I’m sure it’s the same as the sp.

  129. 129
    9:52 pm, June 2, 2009

    Finkeldey Fabrax sez:

    The monks don’t get better, and they cannot carry the pretty much essential rings of regeneration. That was one thing I was referring to with “disadvantaged” classes. I talked at length about how difficult being a monk was above here some months ago, when I was named “slengof.” I never did win. Perhaps it is my destiny to try again.

    You only get better hit points if you increase your constitution between levels. It is possible you would increase the constitution just as much if you waited to go up levels. Although in my case I can’t help getting too much experience unless I stop killing monsters, and sometimes running away from a thing you could have defeated is a bad idea.

    A better reason to limit your levels might be that your next magic crystal purchase will be cheaper up one level than two, and it often is the case that having your spell points refilled is more important than increasing the maximum number of them. The lower the level you can start hoarding money at, the better. This pertains to Dungeons of the Unforgiven more so than Moraff’s World, of course. I actually don’t remember exactly how the inns in that game work.

  130. 130
    9:55 pm, June 2, 2009

    Finkeldey Fabrax sez:

    Monks receive very low spell point bonuses. I think any intelligence less than 18 only gets you two per level. It’s possible to start with three spell points but you’ll be weak in other aspects, and monks are weak anyway.

  131. 131
    10:03 pm, June 2, 2009

    Fox sez:

    I’m playing my elf monk atm and got him to lvl 6 (woot, new record for a monk, since I keep dying with them.) It seems trying to hit with them is a pain in comparison to my Orge Mage (and we both had the same starting dex)

    so Sage is out of the question, and Monk is there in that pile as well.

    What about Worshiper I wonder. Looks like from the description that it’s ok but not really a good class in the game (but of course the descriptions are horrid to begin with!)

    Trying to conduct some kind of list from easiest/best class to most difficult/worst class. So far I have this:

    Monk/Sage at bottom?

  132. 132
    1:44 am, June 3, 2009

    Fox sez:

    Update on that list after making test characters, all human with 22 for every stat.


  133. 133
    2:33 am, June 3, 2009

    Fox sez:

    Next update on the list after testing out the classes some more.


    *Between the Sage getting every spell in the game and using items, but being a poor fighter and not being able to use a lot of weapons and armor, it just might be a better class than the Worshiper. The Worshiper gets more SP and I believe more HP as well (didn’t test that out though)

    -At this point, anything under Priest is going to be more challenging to say the least. Fighter gets a lot of HP and can use items and top weapons and armor, but no spells. Sage finds every spell in the game, can use items, but lacks fighting ability and HP/SP. Worshiper is more of a spell casting orientated Priest, gaining more SP and around the same HP. The Worshiper can use items, but no armor or weapons hurt it. Monk lacks HP/SP, can’t use anything, but starts off with every spell at his/her disposal.

    As for Mage, Wizard, and Priest, they are a lot easier to go through the dungeon with. Mages get the advantages of a fighter and a wizard (decent HP/SP, wizard spell set, can use high armor and weapons, ect) and on top of all that, the Mage can use items. Only lacks the Priest spell list. Priests are like Mages, but instead of Wizard and Fighter, it’s Fighter and Worshiper in a nutshell. Wizards get thousands of spell points to punish monsters with and can use items (and the knife, which isn’t too shabby!)

    Probably already common knowledge to all the more advanced Moraff’s World players. If I missed anything, let me know as I was lazy testing out all the classes ^_^;

    I’ll have to try Dotu sometime down the road as well.

  134. 134
    2:46 am, June 3, 2009

    Finkeldey Fabrax sez:

    Well, this was never intended to be a Moraff knowledge repository. It’s just a comment form on an old entry on my stupid website, so don’t worry too much about it. I get e-mail anytime somebody posts in it, so take as much time as you like.
    Scared0o0Rabbit up there did write one of the gamefaqs Moraff dungeon faqs, however. It baffles me that there are two.

    I prefer mage to priest because there are less superfluous spells. If you have enough magic to cast “fast big cure” you probably have enough to destroy whatever monster you are facing.

    DOTU is, in essence, just a less forgiving version of Moraff’s World. Hence the title, I suppose. You probably knew that.

  135. 135
    5:33 pm, June 3, 2009

    Fox sez:

    cool, thanks!

    I’m considering using a race that gets on average a higher dex than other classes and use that race with a wicked high dex and str and become a sage and try that out. Hopefully Sages can use the knife, so that way, I deal some fast damage. Might be a decent combination.

  136. 136
    10:26 pm, June 4, 2009

    Fox sez:

    So I’ve been playing a Hobbit Sage with a dex > 30 and str > 22 and all I have to say is that they, at first, are wicked tough to start, but now that I’m lvl 11, it’s going pretty smooth. Using a Knife like I said I would before and it’s working great, especially when you slow the monsters down and up your speed and strength ^_^

  137. 137
    7:22 pm, June 5, 2009

    Finkeldey Fabrax sez:

    That’s good, I suppose. It almost never occurs to me to use statistic altering spells in video games. But verily, in both games, after a certain point there’s very little that can stop you unless you run out of spell points or get so complacent that you stop paying attention to how much damage some of the seemingly less-threatening monsters occasionally deal out.

  138. 138
    2:01 am, June 29, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    “Well, this was never intended to be a Moraff knowledge repository. It’s just a comment form on an old entry on my stupid website, so don’t worry too much about it. I get e-mail anytime somebody posts in it, so take as much time as you like.
    Scared0o0Rabbit up there did write one of the gamefaqs Moraff dungeon faqs, however. It baffles me that there are two.”

    I wrote mine because I was unhappy with the level of detail in the existing FAQ and I felt like I had something to add heh.

    “But verily, in both games, after a certain point there’s very little that can stop you unless you run out of spell points or get so complacent that you stop paying attention to how much damage some of the seemingly less-threatening monsters occasionally deal out.”

    This. It sucks being wiped out by a freaking garbage can just because it has a bijillion HP and you get unlucky.

    Incidentally, while fooling around with the memory addresses for dotu and world I found out that it’s possible to end up dying from a level down. If you’ve increased con since your last level up you will lose more hp from going down a level than you gained for going up a level. Taken one step further, if you’ve drastically increased con since your last level up (it may require cheating to get this drastic, or lots of patience lol) it’s possible to have your max hp drop to below zero. This effectively kills you. I think I figured it out in world and didn’t play with it in dotu as I popped up back in town from a contract, but couldn’t move because every time I tried I ‘died’ again from having less than 0 hp.

  139. 139
    4:42 pm, July 1, 2009

    ARandomKid sez:

    “I’ll have to try Dotu sometime down the road as well.”

    Referencing a post from quite a while ago, I downloaded Moraff’s World on a few occasions, but could never get used to the inability to turn and face different directions. You always faced the same way and if you pressed right you moved one space right without the need to turn and press forward. That always bugged the heck out of me, primarily (I’m guessing) because I was first exposed to DotU and so grew accustomed to needing to turn and face the direction I wanted to go.

    So in all I like DotU better simply because I’m more accustomed to it and it looked better. (I can’t believe I just said DotU looked better than something. Wow.) Less disorientating, at least for me.

  140. 140
    5:13 pm, July 2, 2009

    ARandomKid sez:

    Also, after trying out the high res SVGA mode trick thing in the GameFAQS faq (the good one (by Scared0o0Rabbit (below))), I don’t think I could go back. It’s so…detailed. (compared to the other modes)


  141. 141
    6:36 pm, August 5, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    Yeah, every time I try and pick up world I get frustrated and give up on it because it seems primitive compared to DOTU (another scary thought). I used to play in SVGA mode years ago on my 486. I can’t remember which chipset I had to use back then, but it was nice. The worst hardware I’ve played this on is a 486 laptop with a monochrome screen heh.

  142. 142
    5:20 pm, November 13, 2009

    AriniaJeala sez:

    I found this site using [url=http://google.com]google.com[/url] And i want to thank you for your work. You have done really very good site. Great work, great site! Thank you!

    Sorry for offtopic

  143. 143
    8:22 pm, November 13, 2009

    Umpulurgit sez:

    Please tell me more about “google.”

  144. 144
    5:01 am, November 15, 2009

    Scared0o0Rabbit sez:

    *blink* it’d be interesting to know what website they meant to post lol.

  145. 145
    11:27 am, November 15, 2009

    Umpulurgit sez:

    It actually was google. A surprising amount of my robots are so dull and unambitious as to suggest the search engine I was already indoctrinated into using exclusively years ago. If I was going to change it, I’d change it to something that was more obvious I had done the deed, like pancakepavillion.com or beetstreet.org Although now that you mention it, I suppose it’s possible that the wordpress programmers themselves mandated such occasional automatic fiddling, in which event, I hope google paid them a lot of money.

  146. 146
    7:26 am, November 17, 2009

    The gangplank sez:

    Beet Street…That would be a good title for the inevitable prime time sitcom based on your comic.

  147. 147
    12:33 pm, November 17, 2009

    nintendost sez:

    Article very interesting, I will necessarily add it in the selected works and I will visit this site

  148. 148
    1:48 pm, November 17, 2009

    Umpulurgit sez:

    I can think of nothing more necessary

  149. 149
    2:10 pm, November 17, 2009

    amipliplestem sez:

    Attention Shoppers
    Just back from Natick Mall .People are buying.Have the incentives kicked in?.Is your local mall feeling the recovery?Better deals than last year.Gotta go shopping some more..Friends say that Topanga Mall is doing well also.


  150. 150
    5:40 pm, November 18, 2009

    amipliplestem sez:

    Hi Folks
    I was at Natick Mall .People are buying.Have the incentives kicked in?.Same in your area?Staff was cut – so service is weaker.Off to shop..I think Park City Mall is shopping.


  151. 151
    5:55 pm, November 18, 2009

    Spiyda Boi's PR officer sez:

    As an officer of PR, I can say that the previous ad-bot has done very little to improve the reputation of either Natick Mall, Park City Mall or whatever the Hell is in the link.

    Erm… that’s all I got.

  152. 152
    12:25 am, November 25, 2009

    Umpulurgit sez:

    I think I just accidentally deleted the great response I gave you where I pretended I thought PR meant pot roast.

  153. 153
    5:09 am, December 11, 2009

    Scared Rabbit sez:

    I just did a major rewrite of the setup section of my FAQ, because I decided to start playing again today and I noticed that not only is dosbox .73 out, but it now has SVGA support, so no more having to use a CVS build of dosbox! No idea how long gamefaqs will take to process my update, there are 21 FAQs in front of me right now.

  154. 154
    5:14 am, December 11, 2009

    Anonymous sez:

    Oh and I included some new tweaks I’ve found to make it run a little better in dosbox (because it tends to run like crap otherwise).

  155. 155
    6:59 am, December 11, 2009

    Scared Rabbit sez:

    Found a new and interesting way to die. I’m not sure how I did it, but I got my experience corrupted (I wasn’t even playing with memory addresses this time, I swear). I think it resulted from a bad backup I made or something. In any case, my experience and the experience for all monsters I encountered turned into -nan (which means that somehow a value other than a number had been stored in the variable that was meant to store experience). I had hoped that sleeping at the inn would fix this, slim as the hope was. But instead it actually killed me! I’m not sure if the death was caused by level being less than zero or if my levels decreased because of the lack of any experience to a point at which my max hp was less than zero (because this can kill you also).

    An interesting side note, coming into town the snake told me something along the lines of if I kept it up, I might eventually become a novice. I haven’t played in a while, but I thought novice was the lowest rank in the game. If so, did he actually program in something for the snakes to say in the event that you did somehow get to a rank lower than the beginning rank?

  156. 156
    12:49 am, December 19, 2009

    Scared Rabbit sez:

    Hmmm… running this in Dosbox 0.73 in Ubuntu 9.10 I’m seeing some WEIRD stuff happen heh.

    I’ve seen a monster a couple of times give me 1000’s of times more experience than what it said it would. This results in a -nan experience and your character basically being done =/.

    I was running around with a guy with like 999 luck though… so maybe I should try not messing with the stats so much at the beginning of the game. This is like the third time I’ve had this happen though, so I’m getting really frustrated lol.

  157. 157
    8:41 pm, December 24, 2009

    Umpulurgit sez:

    That Moraff. He will probably take his secrets to the grave.

  158. 158
    3:54 am, January 10, 2010

    Dublemen sez:

    Hello, I want to congratulate your site with 2010. I am sure that, in this new year, your article will please his readers.

  159. 159
    10:19 pm, January 13, 2010

    Fonbiyulb sez:

    Wow, a whole new year? For me??? You are far too generous, clones.

  160. 160
    3:17 am, March 4, 2010

    Jason sez:

    I played the game start from finish on Normal as Fighter. The last boss nearly killed me though. Since it had that annoying -2 Strength Drain everytime it hit… or was that only the devils…

  161. 161
    1:20 pm, March 4, 2010

    Rabivit sez:

    I didn’t think it was possible to win as a fighter! Although it is true a majority of the magic I use is to compensate for my non-fighter’s wimpiness and the fear that I won’t be able to beat level drainers without them hitting back. Still, the pass wall spell is almost essential for meeting shadow fiends in some of those layouts.

    It seems probable that the ogeroth drains something in addition to levels. You had accumulated a few “resist level drain” spell papers by then, at least, hopefully.

    But now I remember that you can’t enter module 5 on “normal” mode, so you’re probably talking about the Evil God. I don’t recall if that drains levels. I think it drains intelligence, though. The shadowites drain levels in module 5.

  162. 162
    2:41 am, March 9, 2010

    Jason sez:

    Ya playing on normal as a fighter was rough. Especially when you’d get poisoned or diseased. Being that strength and constitution are your two main stats, it became quite tough in deciding, should I try to get back to town and cure it… or keep going?

    For some levels it was a hard choice. Sometimes you’d get poisoned at LV 52 of module 4. Or diseased… highly unlikely you will reach the top in time… but, how many pts are you willing to lose in your hunt for shadow monsters?

    The Level-Drainers were a pain. But what could you do? They were a risk, but a risk in which I could get an Orange Potion, a White Potion or a Red Potion… or in dire circumstances, a Key!

  163. 163
    2:43 am, March 9, 2010

    Jason sez:

    What I would like to know is if anyone legitimately beat the game either on normal or hard mode as a Monk! By far hardest class to play!

    In my opinion difficulty of classes were in this order:

    Monk (Hardest to Play)
    Fighter (Surprised I put it here I bet)
    Sage (Easiest to Play)

  164. 164
    5:37 pm, March 16, 2010

    Rabivit sez:

    If you search this page for “monk” you’ll probably find me (under a variety of names) whining at length about my attempts to win as a one! This led to my discovery that the top floor monsters have their damage limit capped before you go up a level; I would retreat from danger in search of balls of thought but continue getting mauled by the wimpiest beasts around, who could suddenly take out 9 hit points at a time, and then I would have to use any magic I found on healing spells, negating all progress, and not getting any money, either. It was rather pathetic.

    I don’t know about wizard being harder than fighter, though. The “relocate” and magic zap spells are invaluable. But I suppose if you never have to hide from or risk failing to strike monsters with basic attacks, such tactics lose a bit of their appeal.

  165. 165
    9:33 pm, April 18, 2010

    QWMichael sez:

    No. But now i will. Thanks for that.

  166. 166
    9:38 pm, April 18, 2010

    Rabivit sez:

    No you won’t!

  167. 167
    1:06 am, June 19, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Hey look me again! :D

    Testing out this game as I am rather bored. Using a Sage this time, to change things up a bit and to see if it really is easier than a Priest, as suggested by Jason in comment number 163. Wow this thing has certainly gotten quite a bit of attention since I first discovered it…

  168. 168
    2:57 pm, June 19, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    Hello there, Sir Kid!
    To be fair, about the attention, some of the comments are from robots and some of the comments are me talking to the robots, since this post is so old. This is the fourteenth comment name I’ve had since putting it here!

    I didn’t even notice our Jason had put sage at the front. I’m skeptical of that as well, although I’m not even sure what I know about this game anymore ever since that Kefka person was talking about getting up to level ten and having 50 dexterity and luck and such before even entering the second module.

  169. 169
    2:02 pm, June 20, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Well, at level 4 I have 386 hp, which I believe is considerably more than I had with the other classes. This could be due to a number of other things too, including me remembering things incorrectly.

    Also I’m apparently only 8 years old wtf?

    I’m only allowed to equip leather armor and wield a knife, but I don’t see that being a giant detriment to gameplay to be honest. Maybe the armor.

    I do seem to be getting hit harder than I remember, but maybe it’s normal. I don’t know. Haven’t played in forever and a half.

  170. 170
    2:03 pm, June 20, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Overall though, it doesn’t seem to be any easier than starting as a priest.

    However, it is also not noticeably more difficult either.

  171. 171
    1:08 am, June 21, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Ahh, comment 17. I don’t really find starting all that hard anymore for some reason. Huh.

    Also, woo close to a 200% hp jump from a single level (386 to 678). :D

  172. 172
    11:10 pm, June 23, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Also the “2 points per level” as a Sage is borked, as I’ve got 46 spell points on level 17, and even including the 4 I had to start with doesn’t get me there. >_>

  173. 173
    1:03 am, June 27, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Whoops I died and forgot to back up the character file.

    Almost won anyway. Sage wasn’t too difficult, just had to keep going to the inn for spell points more often.

    Now for my long time nemesis…the Monk! :O

  174. 174
    1:37 am, June 27, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Oh also having ~8000 hit points was nice. Yes, eight thousand. That is no typo.

    Only 300-odd spell points, but dude I was a fucking tank! like, shit, wher’s my rainbow, cuz I’m a garbage can!

  175. 175
    11:52 am, June 27, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Hey look who actually did back up their file but in a really odd place (aka not on my desktop for whatever reason).

    Anywho, I win! :D Here’s the save file for those curious about stats and such. I’d take a bunch of screenshots, but A.) I’m lazy and B.) it won’t let me and, again, I’m too lazy to figure it out.


  176. 176
    6:16 pm, June 29, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    I always lose track of my character backups immediately! However, that’s generally because I tend to just name copies by adding a redundant letter. Thus, a copy of “20” is “200.” Another copy will be “2000,” and these are all in the standard moraff directory, which is loaded with oddly named number files as it is! Thankfully, I don’t find the game very fulfilling to play with character backups these days, if indeed the game can ever be called that. The fear of death is what keeps the game compelling. Although really, what’s to stop me from deleting my saves out of better games after similar failures? (the fact that they are better games)

    Ah, and thank you for your attempts to raise off-site Moraff awareness! I hadn’t checked my referral data in a while!

  177. 177
    10:52 pm, June 30, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Okay Monks like dying. A lot. Yeah.

    Let’s go with that.

  178. 178
    5:23 am, July 3, 2010

    HeathFelicia22 sez:

    That is well known that money makes us independent. But what to do when somebody has no cash? The one way only is to get the loan or just college loan.

  179. 179
    12:58 pm, July 3, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    Just make sure to trade it for rubles before you try to spend it.

  180. 180
    1:46 pm, August 12, 2010

    Scared Rabbit sez:

    I’ve posted a minor update to my faq on gamefaqs. It should be live today.

  181. 181
    10:14 pm, August 12, 2010

    Yoshi sez:

    interesting enough i found a non game engine hex ewdit or anything else like that way to break the game with the priest. get about 40 or 50 agility. which is possible if you roll your stats enough invest the rest in strength make a priest and buy a longsword. go down to the elemental level and hunt water elementals till the sun dont shine or you get bored. it’s risky yeah but at level 0 the drainers beyond section 1 wont drain ANY exp and if your not cocky you can bag some good exp/money/potions raise your other stats then level.

  182. 182
    10:16 pm, August 12, 2010

    Yoshi sez:

    oh and with 40 or 50 dex you cant really be hit while your practically garaunteed to hit your enemies. with 60-80 dex you can wander around for about 90% of the game, especially after power kill 3
    , without resist spells cause nothing can hit you before you kill them.

  183. 183
    8:21 pm, August 13, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Yes, but after Power Weapon III nothing is alive long enough to do very much damage anyway. That and by the time you really need to cure disease/poison the rubles required to do so at the temple are a drop in the bucket, and cheaper than casting resist spells in the first place what with the soaring cost of magic crystals.

  184. 184
    8:27 pm, August 13, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    Dexterity really is the dominant attribute, I suppose. It’s nice to have a number throwing game where it’s not all about strength.

    I sort of wish I hadn’t titled this post “key lime pie.” I get email titled “Comment: “Key Lime Pie”” every time somebody posts in here and it makes me want some. I must take action.

  185. 185
    2:56 pm, August 17, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Oh wow. Did this stupidly addictive game really create a 2 year long comment discussion?

    Anyways. I’m one of those guys who finally got hold of a full copy of this game after playing module I over and over as a kid (and I regret it already :P).

    Anyways, right now I’ve killed all but the shadow demon queen of section I, and then I’ll finally be able to see the rest of the sections myself after about what… 15 years? So I’m running around in the level where I can find her going stabbity stab with my knife on everything I see. The map says go north. I go north. The map says go east. I go east. The map says go north. I go north. The map says go east.

    Wait. There isn’t any more east than this. So basically, the map points to a location beyond the boundaries of the level, making it impossible to rape the queen with my overpowered sage and thus not getting a very important weapon upgrade. Anyone have ideas on fixing this would be a very big help.

    Also, about the sage. I absolutely love that class. I don’t play anything else. I have the feeling it starts out difficult (as I died 10 times before even being able to kill one shadow boss) but reading these comments I think I’m getting WAY more cash than any other class.

    Some stats of my character:

    LVL: 11
    HP: 1244
    SP: 18
    Stats all in the 40’s or 50’s
    Culture stock around 50.000
    Magic crystals around 20.000

    And having a million rubles is pocket change. I think the sage gets bonuses in drops; I get an average of around 2 million GAD from creatures in the lowest levels of Module I, and almost every creature I kill gives me a ‘You find…’ message.

    For my starter stats, everything was a minimum of 13, with 19 strength, 21 dexterity, and the rest a bit evenly spread favoring intelligence, then constitution.

  186. 186
    7:18 pm, August 17, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    If a shadow monster has appeared in a non-accessible area, you can reset all creature positions be deleting the pertinent *mon.map file. Which one it is will vary depending on which character slot you’re using, such as emon.map for character 0 (I think), fmon.map for character 1 and on from there.

    However, it’s safe to delete all maps at once, provided you don’t have one specially set up for some purpose.

    Moraff’s World actually came with a batch file which performed this action, containing only the command “delete *.map” .

  187. 187
    9:26 am, August 18, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Well, I tried that twice, and it still points to the east at the eastmost point in the map (and I’m sure because I’ve used a stone of seeing).

  188. 188
    10:41 am, August 18, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    Most peculiar! You could try starting a new game, going to the fifth floor and copying the map generated there, with the shadow gargalon on it, which will change into the queen when copied to the space of a character in the flooded section. This will cause it to be at level 4 or so and much easier to take down, but nothing in that game is a tremendous challenge just on its own and in any event you’d still get the weapon orb.
    If that isn’t silly enough, you also have to make sure you do not leave that floor, because returning will reset the map which seems to not be working.
    And THEN there’s a possibility the gargalon will be in a spot that corresponds to a wall on the lower level. Gee oh gosh.
    In THAT case you could try to send a new character all the way down to floor twenty, where ideally a new queen will have been generated within the dungeon borders, but that might be prohibitively difficult to set up.

    OR, copy the current character to a different character slot and see what that does. Provided it’s not the player data itself which is causing the queen to appear outside the map I have not encountered this problem before, but I don’t like to be bested by Moraff.

  189. 189
    6:51 am, August 19, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Wow thanks for the help! I will try the new character to level twenty this evening (Don’t know where you’re from but it’s noon here :P). If you give a giant-fighter ridiculous strength and agility and quite some constitution it should be fairly possible to get down there. (Or maybe a monk with lots of sp to use teleportation and descend spells?)

    I’ll leave a notice when it’s working. ;)

  190. 190
    6:55 am, August 19, 2010

    Pino sez:

    On a side note, has it occurred to anyone that Moraff made the most evil game in history. It sucks like hell, it swallows you up and spits you like a piece of gum but once you start playing it, you’re stuck in it until you finish it.

    Steve Moraff is a twisted genius.

  191. 191
    10:30 pm, August 21, 2010

    Scared Rabbit sez:

    Yeah I dunno what it is about this game, but I’ve been wanting to play through it again. It’s only the fact that the last few times I’ve tried playing it on linux it’s not gone well that are keeping me from it…

  192. 192
    10:16 am, August 22, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Well, I’m using DosBox at any rate, upping the cycles to about 32000. It works like a charm.

    On a side note, still no luck in getting the shadow demon queen.

  193. 193
    10:57 pm, August 22, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    I never bothered to use dosbox until I read that it could run the game in the mythical high resolution mode (most likely in the frightened lapine’s game fack) That’s a higher priority for me with Moraff World, though, because its floors are sort of ugly otherwise.

    As opposed to this. If I want things done fast, however, nothing beats dinkity old 320×200.

    Still no queen? Maybe I’ll send someone down there for you myself. There’s really no excuse for her Majesty to disregard her royal responsibility to intermittently be slain and mugged.
    Here, then, in a dmon.map which places the shadow queen demon somewhere near the center of the map. I hope you find this functional!

  194. 194
    5:28 am, August 23, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Thank you so so much, now I won’t be left with a feeling of guilt for deleting the game without finishing it. =P

    Oh and for the higher resolution; it is very possible, I use it all the time. Download the latest DosBox, and go to the install location. There you will find a .bat file for options which opens a simple config file in notepad. There, in the second part of options, where you see ‘machine=’ type down ‘machine=svga_et4000’. Then you can start DosBox normally, and starting the game choose option ‘A’ and then option ‘1’.

    For the people who don’t know, to up the speed in DosBox hit CTRL+F12 repeatedly. CTRL+F11 to get it back down.

  195. 195
    5:29 am, August 23, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Thank you so so much, now I won’t be left with a feeling of guilt for deleting the game without finishing it. =P

    Oh and for the higher resolution; it is very possible, I use it all the time. Download the latest DosBox, and go to the install location. There you will find a .bat file for options which opens a simple config file in notepad. There, in the second part of options, where you see ‘machine=’ type down ‘machine=svga_et4000’. Then you can start DosBox normally, and starting the game choose option ‘A’ and then option ‘1’.

    For the people who don’t know, to up the speed in DosBox hit CTRL+F12 repeatedly. CTRL+F11 to get it back down.

  196. 196
    5:51 am, August 23, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Wow I don’t believe it, even with your map file the demon queen is still inaccessible. So it should be some problem with my character’s file? (Or just some sloppy coding on Moraff’s account?) Anyways, the ideas for fixing this are running thin, and there’s no way I’m trying to build a character like that again, it took me around 30 characters who died before even finishing off their first shadow monster.

  197. 197
    11:18 am, August 23, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    Might you possibly upload your own character file somewhere? It would just be the number of the character with a 2 in the front (eg 20, 21, 22 eccht) and no file extension. I may be explaining some part of the process improperly (I evidently didn’t establish that I figured out the high resolution mode and the green and pink plaid was from that, for example). Although even then it doesn’t excuse the game for setting things up in such a way. I am curious to witness this anomaly in any event. Because I am very, very boring.

  198. 198
    6:22 pm, August 23, 2010

    Pino sez:

    The character file is at:


    I thought at the start of this comment thread someone said hacking the character file is quite difficult, so I didn’t think of tampering with it myself yet…

  199. 199
    7:36 pm, August 23, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    A most peculiar case!
    While I did find the queen where I had left her, I decided to reset the map file, and indeed was then inexplicably directed to some place east of accessible. Also “south” if I went too far north, which suggests… something of minimal relevance, most likely.

    I cannot say what causes that. My guess is that there’s some data in the character file itself that tells the game where a shadow monster is “supposed” to be so that if you get significantly detoured it won’t be in a totally different place when you return, and in this situation that did not work properly. For post 27 here I had been forced to dig a series of tunnels and became trapped in a secluded area far to the side of the map. I wonder if your shadow queen is appearing one of those chambers (much as the hell couple had in the accompanying picture) and for whatever reason the stone of seeing isn’t bothering to show it.

    However, I did make save-copies of immediately before and after defeating the queen, with the orb applied. I then traveled to the next section to see if the shadow troggisher would be similarly elusive, and it was not, thankfully. Maybe this was an isolated incident (and maybe not, but I’m optimistic). For the sake of completion, that is here.

  200. 200
    9:17 am, August 24, 2010

    Pino sez:

    So what is the DUN file then actually? Dungeon exploration and monsters are both stored in the .map file, right?

    I took the before savefile because I finally wanted to down her myself too, although she hardly posed a bigger threat than your average LVL 20 garbage can. =P

    Thanks a bunch. Now to complete this adventure disaster.

  201. 201
    10:13 pm, August 26, 2010

    Frubaklop sez:

    I think the DUN is just how much of the dungeon is shown as being explored. you may have noticed that your stone of seeing had become undone if you copied the one I had in the zip (I only included it because I am always open to the idea that I have erred and figured it was worth putting in everything). There are a lot more of them than the maps, because the game tries to remember your entire exploration history. I don’t recall if the game is perfect with this, but I know Moraff’s World tends to delete them if you leave the dungeon and move around in the weird landscape zone and go back down somewhere else. Now I’m wondering if the dungeon itself is laid out differently when you do that. This is probably irrelevant!

  202. 202
    7:05 am, August 27, 2010

    Pino sez:

    Well in Dungeons of the Unforgiven levels always have the same layout so this certainly doesn’t apply to this game.

    In other news, my character just died unexpectedly after killing 3 shadow monsters in module II. And got beefed up because leveling in the poison/disease section is WAY too easy. And I forgot to take a backup. So back to square one. =P

  203. 203
    1:25 am, October 21, 2010

    insurance introducer magazine sez:

    Hey Federico, whatever?


  204. 204
    12:32 am, October 22, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    Is it more impressive or depressing that robots have evolved to have apathy/peggies?

  205. 205
    10:58 pm, December 13, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Sometimes I am tempted to just copy that list of banned words down there and paste it in here to see what would happen.

    Probably nothing special.

  206. 206
    11:55 pm, December 13, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    Not special, certainly, but quite stupid!

    The comment would be prevented from appearing until I dug through my robot comment trove to “approve” it, in the event I successfully identified it as coming from a non-robot during the my next megaskim. You might merely assume it had been automatically deleted, and be mildly annoyed. Coincidentally, just this occurred twice on the most recent thing I posted. I need a better system, clearly! Or less robots. Fortunately, anybody who reads these things is used to being annoyed by them.

  207. 207
    10:17 pm, December 16, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Gonna try this game with a Monk again. This time without cheating by deleting the *mon.map file when I run out of things to kill on the starting level.

    time is passing here as I play

    I should probably be studying for finals actually.

    **** that.

    Well, I got to level one and didn’t die yet. Here’s hoping.

  208. 208
    10:22 pm, December 16, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    “Ah, and thank you for your attempts to raise off-site Moraff awareness! I hadn’t checked my referral data in a while!”

    I forget when, or where I did this (I know why, though. It’s because I am insane and want other people to suffer, hehe) But you are welcome anyway I guess.

  209. 209
    11:15 pm, December 16, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    I don’t remember either! I scarcely remember thanking you for it! You are welcome, I guess!

    I also forgot to mention that I did finally make progress as a monk, though that link doesn’t explain much.
    I got to the second flooded section and then became distracted by school business. The game does gradually become manageable and graduallier less tedious. I spent a lot of time slaying weak things for shimmering thought-balls when I ran out of spell points. This was a change from my previous monk attempts, in which I failed to reach a point where level 1 monsters couldn’t necessarily kill my person.

  210. 210
    1:36 pm, December 17, 2010

    ipad game developer sez:

    While there is life there is hope.


  211. 211
    2:16 pm, December 17, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Robot philosophers!

  212. 212
    3:19 am, December 18, 2010

    times ipad app sez:

    Nurture passes nature.


  213. 213
    1:37 pm, December 18, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Ahaha I actually have this bookmarked on my desktop browser I haven’t touched for months.

    And I see mr. developer there has recruited a member into his cult of philosophers.

    We are all clearly doomed.

  214. 214
    6:23 pm, December 18, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    damnit quit dying stupid monk.

  215. 215
    4:28 pm, December 19, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    I find it hilarious that you can somehow manage to get cups of health from the poisoned and diseased flasks/toxic waste barrels.

  216. 216
    8:24 pm, December 19, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Hey guess who the idiot is that drank 2 yellow potions in a row and as a result now has *1* STR.

    I am the star.
    It’s me.

    But hey I’m also level 5 and not strewn about the dungeon in pieces yet!

  217. 217
    3:29 pm, December 20, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    You didn’t even give me a chance to guess!

    That is strange, about the cups of health. Stranger still that I played that game for so many years, somehow making new observations about its weirdness the entire time yet never noticed that one! Maybe Moraff won’t take his secrets to the grave after all. We MUST be getting close by now.

  218. 218
    3:06 am, December 21, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    ?????? ? ????, ???? ???

    ??? ? ??? ??, ? ????? ??!

    On a more related note, I hate having only 256HP/16SP at level 8.

    Also my other stats are crap, at STR:12 WIZ:11 DEX:8 INT:25 CON:28 LUCK21.

    How the heck do you get them up so high so fast without cheating and using the puffball-spam trick?

  219. 219
    11:31 am, December 21, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    Don’t acknowledge the robots! Then I have to leave their comments there for context!

    It certainly wasn’t fast! I remember spending hours not getting much done. I don’t recall anything specific, but I do notice a considerable leap in points between the level 9 and level 11 picture.

    Oh nevermind, apparently I made notes to myself about the journey that I never did anything with.

    Previously I was bad with monks because I didn’t like starting with one magic point, and so devoted attribute score to intelligence. I think below 18 you only get one point per the first few level-ups. I also didn’t like little cure healing a single hit point, and unwisely invested in wisdom. Casting these cures makes other spells unavailable. With this sent to dexterity instead, those spells are less called for anyhow.

    I may have put more than usual into luck, also. Or maybe there were just a lot of light grey puffballs. I think your highest attribute affects which puffballs are most likely to appear. I hardly found any light red ones. Lots of light green ones, though.

    After the first module is conquered and the monsters are no longer a threat (a point I never got to last time; they were still killing me no matter how powerful I got) the chief obstacle is tedium. you must continually retreat upward to regain spell points, and when you descend you can never venture far from a guaranteed route back up. Thus you spend much time patrolling routes that you have already cleared of monsters, or not even getting that far because they’re full of diseased monsters and dark puff balls which you don’t wish to waste magic on.

    It seemed so strange to be on level 9 but still using the same survival principles that I did at the start of the game. Usually the challenge is over by then.
    By level 11 I could go where I wished but when the spell points got to 4 and the hit points 100 a path of retreat was sought.

    I triumphed over Moraff this time, but he will be back, and in greater numbers.

  220. 220
    1:47 pm, December 21, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Aww, but they are so fun!

    I had a few of those potions the level drainers drop, so my strength is now 28 as opposed to 12. My dexterity is still a measly 8, though. :(

    I am 46 years old, slow and fat. (Mainly because I forgot to buy culture stock. Whoops. Which makes me kind of wonder if you can ever die from being too old. I should test that sometime)

    I went and beat up the Shadow Gargalon for the extra 30-point health bonus. It predictably helped very little.

  221. 221
    1:50 pm, December 21, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    I am however using that same “get the hell out while you are half alive” plan, except on Section II enemies. It’s the point I’ve found where money is just enough to get by healing at the temple when I mess up and get hit by a poisoned or diseased enemy when I go through a door or around a corner or something.

  222. 222
    12:12 pm, December 23, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    I have more HP/SP at level 8 then you did at 11! :0

  223. 223
    12:13 pm, December 23, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    (This means I win, clearly)

    (Also I should really stop posting so many times in a row)

  224. 224
    12:57 pm, December 27, 2010

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    I was too ashamed to respond for four days.

  225. 225
    6:09 pm, December 27, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    And thus a level drainer reminds me why I stay far away from them.

    (I hit “2” instead of “3” for a “Resist Disease” instead of “instant kill kthx”)

    Luckily I wasn’t too far up the experience charts. Still pissed I have to get 32,000 all over again, though.

  226. 226
    4:04 pm, December 28, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    Module V monsters should not be so vulnerable to the direct damage spells. I have now shot up 5 levels in the course of several minutes.

    51 SP is just a crazy ridiculous amount for a Monk to have.

  227. 227
    9:55 pm, December 29, 2010

    ARandomKid sez:

    This game is the ultimate test of the limits of one’s patience.

  228. 228
    5:37 pm, January 1, 2011

    ARandomKid sez:

    Question: Are there trap doors to floor ‘0’, and I just have never encountered one?



    yeah, wtf?

  229. 229
    9:19 pm, January 3, 2011

    scared0o0rabbit sez:

    Haha, who knows? Maybe. I just posted a new version of my FAQ up at gamefaqs. It has memlocs for the newest version of dos box as well as instructions on getting svga working and all that good stuff.

    I started playing around with adjusting my location based with cheat engine, it lead to some interesting situations lol. I haven’t had enough time with it to see if I can reproduce the issue I was having in dosbox in Linux though (the one where your experience turned into a bizarre non number that made the game unwinnable).

    Some recent interesting (to me at least) discoveries I’ve made:

    -The cure to disease/poison is setting the number of steps you have until it affects you to a very large number (testing revealed something over 32,700 I believe, though the game sets it to 65535).
    -Your race is stored as a number, and can be adjusted after the game starts with a memory editor. Your weight is also stored this way.
    -Your height is stored as a number that gets multiplied by 4 to be your actual height. Say your height is 16 inches, the variable storing height stores the value 4.
    -Your age is also easily editable, so I will have to see if you can age die.
    -You can edit your location in the world in three dimensional space with a memory editor. However, you can find yourself stuck somewhere and have to either dig your way out, cast a relocate, or edit yourself somewhere else. This can have dire consequences for your .dun file, as it will severely mess up where it sees walls and all that, you can still traverse the dungeon, but don’t even bother looking at your automap.

    Things I want to play with next time I play:
    -Testing for age death.
    -going to a floor/location that doesn’t actually exist!
    -Finding the memory address for what module you are currently in.
    -Maybe finding the addresses for some of the things like which weapon/armor you have equipped, or even finding out what the actual values for the items are so that we can know just how much better some are than others.

  230. 230
    11:20 pm, January 3, 2011

    Preflubmrinkt sez:

    This is mostly irrelevant and probably really late but the game refers to Earth as “Eart” deliberately. I don’t think it’s necessary to place (sic) after each occurrence!
    I can understand it for things like “scorpian” but anybody who’s played the game ought to recognize the error so a single usage ought to suffice.

  231. 231
    4:36 am, January 4, 2011

    ARandomKid sez:

    I’ve gotten the super-powered character obtained by downloading the full version in the linked post way up above there to age 358, and no death thus far.

    I’ve got about 40 million rubles and the inn costs 11 I think (thank you level drainers)? I am out of culture stock. I don’t think age death is a thing that can happen without being incredibly stupid about it. We’ll see I guess.

  232. 232
    4:07 pm, January 4, 2011

    scared0o0rabbit sez:

    Who can really say about the way Eart is spelled. I’d rather leave the sic in and not be looked at like I failed to use a spell check lol.

    Maybe we’d see age death if we exceeded the age allowed by the variable itself. Of course this would probably just cause the game to glitch which might not kill you.

    Another thing related to age. I could swear that it says that it takes a year to cast a permanent spell, right? Well I’ve cast them before and not had my age increase…

  233. 233
    1:53 am, January 5, 2011

    ARandomKid sez:

    Yeah the age is only really applicable at the inn as far as I can tell, and even then it is only STR and CON that even go down, and that’s only if you are above 60 years of age which by that point you are probably at a high enough monetary-income-to-spell-point-at-inn ratio to afford culture stock in between your inn travels. And that’s as a Monk, the lowest SP class.

  234. 234
    12:42 am, January 20, 2011

    Nick Mummey sez:

    Keep functioning ,remarkable job!

  235. 235
    7:46 pm, January 21, 2011

    scared0o0rabbit sez:

    So I’ve posted another update to my FAQ on gamefaqs.

    Notable highlights:

    -I’ve confirmed that you can’t age death (either by max or min age).
    -I’ve confirmed that you having negative experience won’t cause you to die (Though if you cast youth with negative exp it actually raises your exp!)
    -Complete spell descriptions in the FAQ

  236. 236
    1:23 am, January 29, 2011

    ARandomKid sez:

    Progressed through Module I and the first Shadow Monster of Module II with my Monk without cheating via file replacement.

    The rest should just be finding the time to getting around to doing it.

    Even level drainers aren’t so much of a threat anymore now that I can just kill a Module V monster in basically 18-20 spell points. I’m trying to play “fair” (aka tedious), though, so I won’t really abuse that tactic unless I get BS “hey let me just hide behind this door for forever while you sit on the other side and hit Enter” level drained or something.

  237. 237
    10:40 pm, February 13, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    Moraff has a facebook page. Evidently he can speak Russian, Chinese and Italian and no longer has a mustache. The old moraff.com had a picture of him without a mustache, of course, but I never knew which was more recent. I was thinking I should say something to him but apart from “hey I wrote a juvenile web page about one of your games ten years ago and now I’m begging for your personal attention” I really have nothing.

  238. 238
    11:53 pm, February 26, 2011

    Demetrice Kranwinkle sez:

    Only a smiling visitor here to share the love (:, btw great style and design .

  239. 239
    12:54 pm, February 27, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    The ultimate insult and waste of taxpayer dollars: ROBOT DOPES.

  240. 240
    12:15 am, March 10, 2011

    LolaGrocerina sez:

    Hey, guys.

    I am stupid girl. Delete my stupid account and this topic and I will never write you againg! Agoing and Againg LOL.

    I am [url=http://gooooooooo0ogla.corn/]goooooooooogla[/url] stupid GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGALALALALA OLOLOLOLO!

    He he.

  241. 241
    1:59 pm, March 11, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    I’m almost starting to feel bad for the robots now.

  242. 242
    2:54 am, March 25, 2011

    Iminaphomaipt sez:

    Desire keep from me to invent stakes

  243. 243
    11:20 am, March 26, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    Man, tell me about it.

  244. 244
    4:31 pm, March 27, 2011

    Leattywit sez:

    Love links wanted?

  245. 245
    9:03 am, March 28, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    You are regrettably misinformed.

  246. 246
    11:21 pm, April 24, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    By now an absurd majority of the nonsense comments I have to delete are sent here, and there has not been one by a presumed human being for over three months. Is there any objection to me locking this thing at last? Should I try to set up some proper Moraff forum thing? Might there be one already? Is there anything left to say about Moraff?

  247. 247
    5:07 am, April 26, 2011

    Anonymous sez:


  248. 248
    10:31 pm, April 26, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    I’m not sure that counts!

  249. 249
    11:41 am, April 30, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    I don’t know who you are but I’ve deleted you enough that I hate you, Traffic Travis!

  250. 250
    2:43 am, May 4, 2011

    ZereeImmicrot sez:

    delet plz

  251. 251
    6:35 pm, May 7, 2011

    Zinkugel sez:

    Faddle dee doo! No more of this! It is done.

  252. 252
    11:40 am, March 8, 2012

    mark sez:

    i was on google looking for something to explain the constitution and other stats better and stumbled on this.

  253. 253
    11:43 am, March 8, 2012

    mark sez:

    wonder how many people still play this game. i played it with my brothers back in the 7th or 8th grade, about 17 or 18 years ago… my brother must’ve had a wild hair and found the trial version online recently, and after a while i was able to find the full version (we already paid for the full version years ago).

  254. 254
    1:30 pm, March 11, 2012

    Uvprimlurx sez:

    I have not played it in a year or more, but even that it is too recent! Why would I go back so many times to something so cruel and unrewarding? Do I enjoy it? Do I wish Moraff had put some of that lingering, gnawing antagonism into his later games? And why did I unlock this comment thread? Why would I encourage people to talk about it again? Clearly nothing good can come of this.

    I do believe we determined that constitution affected how many hit points a character obtained when increasing in levels, and, more sinisterly, how many are lost when a level is drained. Thus if you raise your constitution after raising your level and then are drained, you will have less hit points than before! Cruel, cruel Moraff.

  255. 255
    9:52 pm, March 12, 2012

    JTrain sez:

    So I’ve been obsessively playing DOTU for many months now… I have me a level 41 mage (childman?) with all the fixin’s — hardly a stat under 200. I’m just finishing up playing for the night, because I was at level 42 and had ALMOST enough experience for 44 — I was about one monster away when, of course, I walk into a random Devil and, of course, it hits be and knocks out an hour and a half of level grinding. My character is camped out on the bottom floor of module four right now, but I’ve beaten all the bosses but the Ogeroth. The Shadow Centipede had managed to knock four levels out of me, and I’m trying to recover before taking on Final Boss.

    I wanted to mention a couple tips that no one seems to have mentioned. Namely, strategic use of ladders. If I’m faced with a level drainer and there’s no space between me and him so I can cast power weapon, I dive up/down a ladder, cast it, and return for vengeance. Also, when I’m operating beyond my level, I create a “safe” staircase where I can use my ring of regeneration indefinitely, lure monsters many times more powerful than I to it, and have at them, sometimes climbing to heal three times or more. It’s a great way to be effectively immortal.

    I also thought I’d mention: I’ve seen a random respawn event. I was walking in an empty room, one I’d already cleared out, when suddenly it repopulated with monsters and I was surrounded! Very strange little thing, that was. I’d been on the floor for ages, and may have even cleaned it out, or almost entirely. I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

  256. 256
    2:23 am, March 19, 2012

    mark sez:

    that’s interesting about them repopulating the empty room. i’ve seen a monster or two appear in an empty room before, only to find out it came thru a secret passage. But i had been wondering how respawning worked. Maybe leaving the floor, or section. Or maybe like you said killing a bunch of stuff.

  257. 257
    8:18 pm, May 6, 2012

    JTrain sez:

    ….annnnd I did it. I played this game over the time of six months, but I finally nailed the “I can handle anything” mode of DOTU. Here’s a before/after of le’ Shadow of Ogeroth at the beginning and end of battle. Sadly, after all that playing, it didn’t even touch me during the fight. Does anyone know what’s drained if it DOES manage to hit you?

    During: http://www.jacqueslbouchard.com/sharing/shadow-ogeroth-alive.jpg

    After: http://www.jacqueslbouchard.com/sharing/shadow-ogeroth-after.jpg

    If anyone knows how to turn those into pics that appear automatically on the fourm, I’d be glad to make that code happen.

  258. 258
    3:36 pm, February 17, 2013

    ARandomKid sez:

    Been tempted to play again with a spellcaster that is only allowed the use of the “Relocate” spell.. It’d be like being a fighter, only without the dumb “You fell down a tunnel into a room without an exit, and can’t relocate! Sucker!” situation.

    Also no Power Weapon game-breaker spell.

    Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the files so this can’t be attempted until I get my hands on a full-version copy again. :(

  259. 259
    9:38 pm, June 6, 2013

    Jason sez:

    I know I posted here a long, time ago, but thought I’d add some more insight into my stuff that I had posted back in.. 2010? I think. (Comment #163 for reference). From Comment #163:
    From Hardest to Play to Easiest:
    Monk (Hardest to Play)
    Fighter (Surprised I put it here I bet)
    Sage (Easiest to Play)


    1) Monk
    -> Can’t use armor or weapons of any kind (even worse that a wizard/worshipper)
    -> Have extremely low SP and HP
    -> (now haven’t played one past lv1 but), Proly can’t use Magic Items like Rings of Regeneration (not sure, but it does say NO ITEMS that can be used)

    2) Worshipper
    -> Priestly battle spells are best for characters that are fighting with weapons most of the time. Priests have higher level attack spells but they aren’t available easily.
    -> Due to this, and the lack of armor and most weapons, its hard to keep a Worshipper alive long enough for it to get access to its best spells. Once it has access to its spells its fairly capable class.
    -> Survivalibility is a problem as most Worshippers I’ve played with extreme caution don’t live past LV 10 and don’t have access to a power weapon spell.
    -> When you’ve run out of spell points you are usually screwed.

    3) Wizard
    -> The wizard suffers many of the same problems as the worshipper, except that you have access to more direct damage spells right off the bat, that also increase in power as you level up.
    -> Most wizards are unstoppable once they get Power Weapon II or Explosion spells as long as you have spell points (Power Weapon I still entails some risks)
    -> Again like the worshipper, when you run out of SPs you are usually screwed.

    4) Fighter
    You may be wondering why I put the fighter as the middle of the road difficulty. This is why:
    -> As a fighter that can’t cast spells, INT and WIS are stats that have no effect for you. You can use these as dump stats, and use as many DEX/CON Potions as you wish. You can even have negative INT or WIS and it has no ingame effect on you. This also means you never have to use an INT/WIS Potion.
    -> The greatsword can pump out a lot of damage, and believe me or not, but at the level (like 45ish) that I was fighting the Shadow Evil God, I was hitting for about 200 to 700 damage a hit with it (the equivalent of a Wizard with Power Weapon I or II) and hit all the time.
    -> You never have to invest in Magic Orbs and can dump all available cash into Culture Stock. Believe me or not, but doing this allows you to acquire a lot of culture stock that normally you wouldn’t be able to afford. During my playthrough, I never aged a single day because I always had more than enough culture stock.
    -> Last but not least, there is a not-wellknown feature about the fighter. When you get down to the Wet areas of each module, and hit Tunnel, you are told that Steve Moraff pities you and instead causes you to relocate to somewhere else. You can do this as much as you want for a free relocate spell. Really useful for hunting level drainers or end-of-module Shadow Monsters.

    -> The direct damage spells for wizards works better for wizards than it does for mages. Since you will be using your weapon more often due to lack of spell points, the priestly battle spells would work better for you.
    -> Its easier than the fighter as you can use relocate whenever you want and can get yourself out of problems easier and at high enough levels cure your own poison and disease, or one-hit kill a pesky level drainer.

    -> Since the priestly battle spells work best for a combative user this class shines very well. Its probably the second-easiest class to play.

    Now you are probably wondering why the sage is by far the easiest character class to play. This is why:
    -> You get the most HP per level and HP per CON than ANY other class. Even without increasing your CON by much you can easily have more HP than Garbage Cans. With a large investment of say 50-80 CON, you can easily have HP in the 10,000s by level 30ish. You can simply outlast everything with a bit of caution (avoid 4 way assaults for example)
    -> You get the most dollars of any class. Its like 2 or 3 times more dollars dropped per item. This means that you can afford saving children earlier to get the discounts and you can stock up of culture stock and magic crystals… remember, at LV 0, Culture Stock costs 3 rubles a piece. With a lot of gold and discounts, you could easily buy so much culture stock that you’d never have to worry about aging again.
    -> You get access to all spells (provided you find them), even though you get very few spell points.
    -> You get access to Leather Armor, and the Knife, which allows you to do more damage early game than the Wizard or Worshipper. And both these items are cheap enough that you can buy both at the start of the game. Since you are using less heavy equipment than the mage or priest, you will naturally move faster and may be able to outrun monsters you don’t want to deal with.

    Hope this clears some confusion up. Also, anyone know if the main executable could be hex-editted or editted in general to allow changes into the game? ie tougher boss fights with better boss rewards? I have a full-version of the game on my computer currently. If you want a copy of it, send me a message at [email protected] and I’ll hook ya up!

  260. 260
    2:05 am, June 7, 2013

    Heapinfrimp sez:

    Ah I wondered where the lowly fighter message showed up. I found that in the text strings years ago but never knew what caused it.
    Indeed monks never get the rings. I detailed my monk exploits in there somewhere, but I daren’t even look myself. I know I reached the second flooded section but I do not recall if I ever got to the Shadow Ogeroth playing that way.

  261. 261
    11:02 am, July 14, 2014

    free love spells that work fast sez:

    They have beesn used by men called sorcerers during the Dark Ages, because of
    increased superstition at that time. Before you start your character creation in Wizard 101 thhe game, you are asked a short series of questions to determine what
    type of wizard you will be. Begin to relax and visualize the
    kind of person you would like to meet.

  262. 262
    12:45 pm, July 14, 2014

    Heapinfrimp sez:

    The previous comment is obviously garbage, but I appreciate that it is at least aware that some manner of role-playing game is or was being discussed.

  263. 263
    9:17 pm, November 13, 2014

    Ravagefox sez:

    I’m thoroughly amazed to see that this crazy game wasn’t completely forgotten by time.

    Ever have a particular game that pisses you off every time you play it, but you keep coming back for more? DOTU is the one for me!

  264. 264
    2:01 am, November 15, 2014

    Frimpinheap sez:

    Time may well have forgotten it but I never had the option to.
    Final Fantasy 8 made me mad, repeatedly, but it was not Moraff cruel.

  265. 265
    4:00 pm, November 17, 2014

    Indighost sez:

    If any visitors enjoy being helplessly mad at video games, I strongly encourage you to play Path of Exile, reach level 88 in a hardcore league, and then attempt to unlock a Strongbox with the “of Putrefication” parameter while visiting a Courtyard Map. Warning: do not expect a logical result. This happened one month ago and I have cordoned off an Exclusion Zone in my mind while the rage slowly disspates so that I can keep playing the game.

  266. 266
    10:29 pm, November 18, 2014

    Frimpinheap sez:

    Despite all appearances, I do not seek out video games because I want to be frustrated by them! None-the-less, should I cross paths with that one, I will keep your technique in mind.

  267. 267
    4:57 am, February 15, 2016

    evilbunny sez:

    I have been playing DoTU recently (good ol’ Cheat Engine helps — bit annoying to have to start each session by searching for the HP address, doing a search-and-replace in the CT file, and reloading it, but this works).

    I usually give myself 200(!) Rings of Regeneration (far more than would naturally be found in one game, and probably enough to wear them as chain mail) and discovered the hard way one thing that one has to beware of with that many, especially with high HP; press ENTER too often without moving, and it is all to easy for your HP to go above 32,767 and thus become negative, at which point you die…

  268. 268
    5:07 am, February 15, 2016

    evilbunny sez:

    And by the way, the FAQ (and this thread) states that if the number of steps to disease or poison effect is set to above “32,000” (I think this should be 32,767) the ailment in question is cured. I think this is because the location in question is a 2-byte signed value, so the “65,536” to which a cure sets it is actually -1.

  269. 269
    5:14 am, February 15, 2016

    Frimpinheap sez:

    I didn’t write the FAQ! I probably should have since I corrected a few of the things in it, and I was credited as “porticulo” which is a name I have not used before or since. But I never meddled in hex editing. If you know how to do that you could probably make your own game.

    Is the game fun if you cheat? I used to advocate cheating by backing up the save files, of course, or finding the puffball spawn points and deleting the MAP file, but it was subtle stat-boosting, and I stopped doing that so much. 200 regenerators seems like way too many. Can you not just make yourself invulnerable?

  270. 270
    5:18 am, February 15, 2016

    Frimpinheap sez:

    Although if you just want a safe trip through the game’s weirdness, that may be more logical than cheating. I forgot that not everybody played this when it was new and then kept playing it intermittently for the next 18 years (I do not think I have played it since 2012).

    And then I realize I just implied that I thought everybody in the world played Dungeons of the Unforgiven. I should go to bed!

  271. 271
    5:27 am, February 15, 2016

    Frimpinheap sez:

    Although those time stamps are a LIE. I posted that at 4:18am! I’m sure glad this isn’t MY website because then it would be MY responsibility to know why the time stamps were wrong, especially if I were the only person to notice or care.

  272. 272
    9:13 am, February 15, 2016

    evilbunny sez:

    I wondered what was the thing with the timestamps. For reference, the first of my posts was at 8:57 am (UK time); I was wondering what part of the world was on UTC-4, as I would have expected -5 to -8.

  273. 273
    6:36 pm, February 16, 2016

    Frimpinheap sez:

    That is odd. I think I originally selected it by choosing a city “near” where I am, but it was definitely oh -4 when I checked just now. It is now on -5 but the old times seem fixed in place. Alas I cannot change the past time stamps any more than I can change all the times in years past when I elected to play Dungeons of the Unforgiven instead of more hypothetically useful activities.

  274. 274
    9:02 am, April 8, 2020

    kefka12 sez:

    Reading through our old convos was a trip down memory lane! Can’t believe it’s been 12 years. Anyone still around?

  275. 275
    12:59 pm, April 8, 2020

    Frimpinheap sez:

    I am still here but I get email notices any time somebody posts a comment!

    i suppose it is funny to see so many of the different names i used when commenting underneath one post. I didn’t realize I ever used eels macinstrudel here or remember “slengof” at all.


    this happened in 2018 but there has been little other moraff news that i am aware of.

  276. 276
    2:15 pm, October 31, 2020

    ARandomKid sez:

    I can’t believe I remembered this link purely from memory. Good times with what seems to be the only group of like 10 people who’ve ever heard of this bizarre thing. 12 years ago…dang.

    Sadly, I lost my full version copy some time ago (though I could probably find one if I *really* wanted to). The shareware just isn’t the same somehow, even though it’s basically grinding bigger numbers to prolong the game time.

  277. 277
    2:19 pm, October 31, 2020

    Frimpinheap sez:

    I doubt I have played it since seeking the reference screenshots for that drawing, as conquering, or at least surviving the monk class seemed to be its last great challenge. Although I considered if making a “speed run” of the first module was possible, and wondered if disallowing warp portal escaping would be essential for making that seem valid.

  278. 278
    2:38 pm, October 31, 2020

    ARandomKid sez:

    Well. Seems full versions are far easier to find than I remember. Game is just as great as I remember it being, which incidentally really isn’t very great at all. Still fun though.

  279. 279
    2:41 pm, October 31, 2020

    Frimpinheap sez:

    I doubt Moraff ever pursued software piracy very diligently, if at all. I used to be worried about hosting the full version here but I doubt I would have had any trouble if I had kept it around.

  280. 280
    10:01 pm, October 31, 2020

    ARandomKid sez:

    I definitely agree with you there, I just seem to remember every site I looked at having the shareware version in the end, likely because it was the easiest to find and they cared about as much as Moraff did about “full version” accuracy. Found it first try this go around, which was all the tries I cared to give it so it all worked out.

    I also always enjoyed your alt text on images immensely, not sure I ever did mention that. It’s like I’m a part of the worst-kept secret in the world, since nearly everyone (or at least everyone I know, and I happen to know a person or two) knows about hovering over the image for the not so subtle message at this point. Any blind folks looking at the page wanting information about DOTU are sure to be overjoyed. I’m sure the sole reason they would come here is honestly due to sheer volume, we’re probably 99.7% of Moraff-related content by now. And as we all know if there’s one thing Moraff wished to be prioritized in his games and discussions about them by the likely entirety of anyone who’s touched them, it was accessibility for the sight impaired.

    I suppose I’ll be back in five years or so to rehash the same points yet again to the same 5 people and spend an hour or so treading down memory lane, assuming we haven’t melted the internet down to make an umbrella or something else equally genius.

  281. 281
    1:43 pm, November 1, 2020

    Frimpinheap sez:

    I am always glad if somebody notices my mouse-over text! especially since years ago the mozilla company or whoever decided they resented that use of alt-text and forcibly disabled its ability to show up like that, mandating the “title” tag instead, which still shows the text but doesn’t appear prior to a picture loading to give a viewer the hint that they should go looking for the text.

    I have probably said it previously but in 1996 i DID own a legitimate copy of the dos games, despite only ordering this one. they came on two or three disks shipped in a common envelope but with a little picture of the “face of death” monster in one corner. I lost absolutely all my data in august i think of 1998 and was never good at holding on to disks so when I started writing about it I also only had the shareware version. “moraff’s vga art” and the updated version of monster morejong, the last version before moraff decided hey why don’t i try to sell this game WITHOUT the dorky dungeon monsters on the tiles, are the most noteworthy inclusions that I have not seen since then.

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